Churchgoers more likely to back torture - Page 23 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #221 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 02:44 PM
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You're right Jim, he's more influenced by Cheney than he is by Christ.
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post #222 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 03:35 PM
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I didn't see anything resembling the WWJD question you pose. To me the poll shows that churchgoers are more likely to agree with authority than others.

I guess that makes them bad Christians according to your book.
I don't like the term "bad Christians." Go back to post 101. I think they are being misled. Their value to their church is in their willingness to be obedient - to be shepherded, to use the church's own words. Again, the issue is the church, and not the individual. The church has a litany of favors to extract from its sheep before they can reach salvation.

There are lots of issues here. But for you, why is it so difficult to just look past the politics and figure out how a real Christian should seek guidance on the issue of torture.

Jim
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post #223 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 03:58 PM
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I don't like the term "bad Christians." Go back to post 101. I think they are being misled. Their value to their church is in their willingness to be obedient - to be shepherded, to use the church's own words. Again, the issue is the church, and not the individual. The church has a litany of favors to extract from its sheep before they can reach salvation.
There are lots of issues here. But for you, why is it so difficult to just look past the politics and figure out how a real Christian should seek guidance on the issue of torture.

Jim
We both are escapees from this type of scenario. I can no longer relate to that mindset. Hence it is difficult to give you the answers you seek. It is not avoidance.
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post #224 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 04:16 PM
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We both are escapees from this type of scenario. I can no longer relate to that mindset. Hence it is difficult to give you the answers you seek. It is not avoidance.
Just answer the last part. Here, I repeated it for you so as not to be confusing or satanic:

"..why is it so difficult to just look past the politics and figure out how a real Christian should seek guidance on the issue of torture.(?)"

Jim
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post #225 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 04:19 PM
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^ Because every Christian will define it a little different. Once again I do not make policy for Christianity. Feel free to define it by yourself if you want.
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post #226 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 04:19 PM
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It has to do with the way one is taught.


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馬鹿は死ななきゃ治らない。

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post #227 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 04:28 PM
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Just answer the last part. Here, I repeated it for you so as not to be confusing or satanic:

"..why is it so difficult to just look past the politics and figure out how a real Christian should seek guidance on the issue of torture.(?)"

Jim
Actually I will be a little more direct to your specific question on how I would seek guidance on the issue.

I have a few people that I trust for guidance to keep me on the right track. They are all spiritually either at my level or above. When I say above I do not mean better than me, just better read and maybe have already faced my challenges before. I'm not a Catholic so I don't turn to the Vatican and I'm not a Muslim so I don't look to an Imam for a fatwa on the issue. I'm my own man and seek my own path with help from people that I trust.

I know you want this to be an absolute so you can bash people if they are on (your perception of) the "wrong side". I'm sorry, but I won't give you that pleasure as it serves no purpose.
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post #228 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 04:56 PM
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So, Sounds to me like discussion is in order, regardless of your desire.
That’s the problem: there is no discussion, only doctrine and dogma.

Also interesting – demonstrated in this and other threads - is the inability of Christians to understand what it actually means to be a disciple of Christ.
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post #229 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 05:01 PM
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That’s the problem: there is no discussion, only doctrine and dogma.

Also interesting – demonstrated in this and other threads - is the inability of Christians to understand what it actually means to be a disciple of Christ.
If you truly understand this, then I would very much like to hear your opinion.
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post #230 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuantle View Post
Actually I will be a little more direct to your specific question on how I would seek guidance on the issue.

I have a few people that I trust for guidance to keep me on the right track. They are all spiritually either at my level or above. When I say above I do not mean better than me, just better read and maybe have already faced my challenges before. I'm not a Catholic so I don't turn to the Vatican and I'm not a Muslim so I don't look to an Imam for a fatwa on the issue. I'm my own man and seek my own path with help from people that I trust.

I know you want this to be an absolute so you can bash people if they are on (your perception of) the "wrong side". I'm sorry, but I won't give you that pleasure as it serves no purpose.
Why not refer to what Jesus said? There's a good example in Mark, chapter - oh fuck it.
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