Churchgoers more likely to back torture - Page 17 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #161 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:46 AM
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I do not think anyone here put Christ down, except those of you who would suggest he would condone torture. The only thing I have "put down" is organized religion in his name that would teach their flock that Jesus Christ would find torture to be acceptable if Americans tortured Muslims, or some other group of people for convenience when the very topic violates what America stands for and has stood for over the last two centuries.

Jim
If anyone has put Christ down, it's these two Christo-facists who ignore the words of Jesus from his sermon on the mount, as told by Matthew, that flies directly in the face of their blood-lusting desire to inflict pain on people they label as "enemies".
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post #162 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:48 AM
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^ Very good Q. You get a cookie! Now research everything Jesus ever said about how to treat others, put it all together and see what your conclusion is then. Go ahead.
If you mean to imply that Jesus contradicts himself on the topic of how to treat your fellow man - friend or enemy - elsewhere in the bible, I think your friends-in-fallaciousness Aardvark and jplinville will want a word with you. After all, the bible is free from error.
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post #163 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:49 AM
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Please explain how I claim to be Christ. This should be good.
Post #147: "Scared so bad they have to put Christ down."

I was addressing you, you claimed I was addressing Christ, did you not? I know you're big on interpretations and hidden meanings and all, but I'm a few rungs down on the ladder from all that, I just read the words.

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post #164 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:52 AM
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I do not think anyone here put Christ down, except those of you who would suggest he would condone torture. The only thing I have "put down" is organized religion in his name that would teach their flock that Jesus Christ would find torture to be acceptable if Americans tortured Muslims, or some other group of people for convenience when the very topic violates what America stands for and has stood for over the last two centuries.

Jim
I agree with you. I just draw my line in the sand a little closer to what I think is actual torture. You place waterboarding in any form on one side and IF it is done according to what was laid out, then I put it on the other side.

This is a tough place to define one's beliefs without looking someone in the eye. I would much rather sit down and buy you guys a drink, or even a drunk, to talk about things like this. It's not statistical analysis or some other dry topic, it's a very person thing.

Sometimes the only thing that separates us is a very thin line. Other times it is a canyon.
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post #165 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:53 AM
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I agree with you. I just draw my line in the sand a little closer to what I think is actual torture. You place waterboarding in any form on one side and IF it is done according to what was laid out, then I put it on the other side.

This is a tough place to define one's beliefs without looking someone in the eye. I would much rather sit down and buy you guys a drink, or even a drunk, to talk about things like this. It's not statistical analysis or some other dry topic, it's a very person thing.

Sometimes the only thing that separates us is a very thin line. Other times it is a canyon.
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Originally Posted by Jesus
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
I'll make it easier - it wasn't Matthew saying this, it was Jesus. You guys don't seem to be getting that.

You think he really wants to draw a line that waterboarding would fall anywhere close to, nevermind through the middle of?

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post #166 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:56 AM
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Jim to the question you raised in post 139.
You again assume the poll has basis in fact.

Aardvark
Well, so far you have not done much to disprove it. Your parsing of the definition of torture like it was a rainbow of increasing severity of mistreatment of humans that only got to verified "torture" at the extreme red end is in direct conflict with the teachings of Jesus Christ. He was non-violent and taught us to be similarly non violent. Since you find Jesus' teachings to be optional, to be followed when you personally find them convenient, I suppose you see no hypocrisy in the premise that entire spectrum of violence that comprises humans purposefully mistreating each other that Jesus rejected at every turn, can be reinterpreted by people like yourself, loudly self proclaimed Christians, to only be the deep red part of that spectrum that does not include your deeds or the deeds of similarly loud mouthed, self proclaimed Christians.

Jim
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post #167 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:58 AM
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^ "Well, he started it" seems to be the defacto excuse for violating Christ's teachings.
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post #168 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 11:05 AM
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^ "Well, he started it" seems to be the defacto excuse for violating Christ's teachings.
Yes that in its many forms of child like logic - Johnny gets to do it, so why can't I? It is the same crap with the Israelis and the Palestinians. Strange that every parent of kids has to learn how to deal with this tactic, but when groups of "adults" do it, somehow the point is lost that the argument is unsupportable and should be wiped away without further consideration.

Jim
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post #169 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 11:09 AM
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There are three steps to becoming Christ-like. Follow, Believe, Obey. I am past Belive and somewhere in the Obey stage and nowhere near perfect, but I am trying.

That should rile a few people up. I await your indignations.
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post #170 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 11:11 AM
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^ "Well, he started it" seems to be the defacto excuse for violating Christ's teachings.
Here is something you can add to that. People who excuse bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior. Moral equivalency.
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