Churchgoers more likely to back torture - Page 16 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #151 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Pretty sure we all read it Stu. "Turn the other cheek" does not mean "turn the other cheek". And Jesus was a Ninja. As Drew deftly pointed out to you many, many posts ago, your online persona seems a lot more Roman than Christian.
Yes, Caligula comes to mind...

Jim
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post #152 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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I don't answer for every "churchgoer". You need to dig deeper into the poll and find out what the question actually was and how it was posed to the "churchgoers". I am suspect of any poll, even the ones that claim most Muslims support death to non-believers. I did a thesis and an article in a trade pub on the abuse of statistics. Then again, the poll may be very scientific with a huge base. Then again, probably not.
Well professor, here's a radical suggestion - read the poll!

There are links provided in this thread if you are too lazy to or incapable of finding it yourself.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #153 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:35 AM
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Therefore, "do not defend yourself under any circumstances what so ever"!
I have an idea. You'll like this! Instead of water-boarding random individuals we seem to have scooped up from all over the globe (none on American soil mind you -- where the concept of "defense" might actually come into play), how about we crucify them on reality TV? Think of the possibilities!

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post #154 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:37 AM
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Smithy,
By your definition I should take the Janis Joplin approach to prayer? You don't seem to understand prayer. How to pray, what to pray for, when to pray, etc. Do you know why God doesn't seem to answer every prayer?

Now I'll address your waterboarding question:

I don't answer for every "churchgoer". You need to dig deeper into the poll and find out what the question actually was and how it was posed to the "churchgoers". I am suspect of any poll, even the ones that claim most Muslims support death to non-believers. I did a thesis and an article in a trade pub on the abuse of statistics. Then again, the poll may be very scientific with a huge base. Then again, probably no
t.
Did you actually believe the drivel that followed your statement committing to address waterboarding addressed the question of waterboarding?

If so, we have uncovered another key element of our disagreement on the subject as I see not a word directed at how anyone even trying to align their lives with teachings of Christ could condone waterboarding.

Jim
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post #155 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:40 AM
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Wow, Now I'm a hypocrite and again defend torture.
Well, believe what you want. but I don't believe either point.
Jim
I said define torture, so you loosely did. Do you describe 48 hours of sleep deprivation torture? Loud music? waterboarding has been a big issue these days. You gave a general description that was to broad to lock down to existing practices.
Not that christians are feeling guilty, but more that we endure slams from folks, and grow a little weary of it. Also if the PEW research was done in the USA, and the USA is 75% proclaimed christian, what does that lead you to believe as far as the direction of the poll respondents ?
Q
You want to blast at me with one verse from Matthew? The verse is not mentioning those who PHYSICALLY ATTACK YOU!!
So thanks for the critique, but you are approaching it from a baseless position.
Typical critique from intolerant non-christians, but not well studied out. Thanks for throwing me into the hypocrite pile without good cause.
You have been forewarned of your destiny options, I think there is little else to discuss with you. You have a propensity for anger. I can't seem to discuss rationally with someone who wants to slam me on a constant basis.
Prayers are in process however, as defined that I should do in your Matthew reference.
Prayers the Spirit gives you direction.
(Wow!)
Aardvark
Give us your definition since mine is too vague for you. And then tell me how you came to the understanding of how a little more of THIS! makes it torture while more of THAT! makes it just one human intentionally trying to make another human he has in captivity more miserable than he might otherwise be and that is ok?

Jim
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post #156 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:41 AM
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In one post you distance yourself from Christ, now you claim to be one and the same. You are just all over the map here, aren't you?
Please explain how I claim to be Christ. This should be good.
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post #157 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:41 AM
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Therefore, "do not defend yourself under any circumstances what so ever"!
Matthew 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
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post #158 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:43 AM
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Very common. Very foolish and has nothing to do with what either Aardvark or I believe.

Christianity seems to terrify many people here. Scared so bad they have to put Christ down.
I do not think anyone here put Christ down, except those of you who would suggest he would condone torture. The only thing I have "put down" is organized religion in his name that would teach their flock that Jesus Christ would find torture to be acceptable if Americans tortured Muslims, or some other group of people for convenience when the very topic violates what America stands for and has stood for over the last two centuries.

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post #159 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:44 AM
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'Since you can't be like Jesus, there is no point in trying'.

Western religion is not concerned with morality or deeds. To suggest a disconnect is errant in that there has never been a connection to dis. Faith-based religions are about faith. That is the message forwarded in John, which aardvark keeps beating you over the head with.
I've yet to see him respond to John 4:22, wherein men came to believe ONLY after seeing for themselves. Specifically, they said they did NOT believe just because someone told them a tale.

The point there, to me, is that some people - even when confronted with irrefutable proof and are in the presence of the man - refuse to believe.

The standard for irrefutable proof, unfortunately, has been degraded to be on-par with "this person who knows a guy who knows my brother in law said so".
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post #160 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:45 AM
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^ Very good Q. You get a cookie! Now research everything Jesus ever said about how to treat others, put it all together and see what your conclusion is then. Go ahead.
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