Again, Jim , and Obncgar
Define torture, and who says I support it? Sounds like your reading something into what I wrote, eh?
I will defend my own. Nothing unscriptural about that, but I don't go out looking for a fight. Self defense, or the defense of your land or country is not unscriptural. Your "turn the other cheek" has a differing meaning than it did in the days of Jesus, by the way, so don't fall back on that.
And as far as me talking down and then defending the churches on the other side. It is not that I believe all churches are defensible. There are some, however that do the right thing, and churches, in general are a good meeting place of like minds. It is rough to find one that does teach gospel principles and live them at the same time, but they are out there. Are they flawless? NO! They are inhabited by humans, and we are not flawless. You work around the flaws to the best of your ability and pray for guidance.
Seems like you want to pick apart the fine points, but negate the important points.
Important Point: Seek and Believe in Christ, or suffer the consequences. That's as simple as it gets. John ch3
The fine points come later.
I have a simple definition of torture - I rely on our past as a nation, which for 200 years or more ALWAYS took the path less travelled when confronted with a decision on whether an existing practice of any kind was found to be "cruel and unusual" or otherwise to be purposefully offensive to humans or other forms of life on earth. By that standard anything that can be construed as torture that is undertaken at the direction of our government is a violation of our Constitution and should be an offense to Christian, Muslim, Jewish, atheist, or "you name it" sensibilities. Spending time parsing the "fine points" on this subject appears to be something you and others find worthwhile. I would prefer we, as Americans, just agree we don't want that shit on our hands. It doesn't wash off - just ask a German kid who has come back from a class field trip to Dachau to get a view of what his now expiring generation of ancestors did given a set of stressful circumstances at the end of the Weimarer Republik. Germany will never escape the shame of the holocaust, and rightly so. America does not need a similar stain, or Scarlet Letter imprinted like a watermark on its history from now on.
I also see you feel it is ok to interpret the words in the Bible. Let's hope that is not some super selective, you are the only one to determine what is out of date and needs to be reinterpreted conditional allowance you have from god. In fact, I propose you reevaluate the relevance of the quote you added at the end. In some cases you sound almost reasonable, and then you impulsively inject a line like "Important Point: Seek and Believe in Christ, or suffer the consequences. That's as simple as it gets. John ch3
" and fail to realize how that phrase is in direct conflict with the US Constitution - presuming you are suggesting the consequences are you burn in Hell for eternity. Yeah, there's a really Christian concept - live a life that follows the precepts and teachings of Jesus Christ, but worship in a different church, and you go to Hell. How fucking arrogant, ignorant, and self righteous! The exact cause for religious whackiness that leads to atrocities being committed in the name of Jesus Christ, who would never condone anything violent against another human being in his name, were he here.
This is where the religious = goodness premise falls apart and all religious fanatics sound the same as they justify whatever they do in the name of their god. It is fundamentally bullshit. Sorry Aardvark.