Churchgoers more likely to back torture - Page 13 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #121 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
jdc1244
You are apparently interested enough to read the opinions.
Nobody is asking you to participate. Sorta a lot of interest if you look at the related subject of "If Jesus Were Alive" with 75 or so pages.
Apparently a hot subject when research polls claim that ~75% of americans claim christianity, and yet the news media and the beltway doesn't get it. This is not to claim that 75% actually live up to the concepts, but they claim christianity, none the less.

So, Sounds to me like discussion is in order, regardless of your desire.
I wouldn't even bring it up unless the subject gets touched on, and then......
Won't however buckle under when confronted on the subject.

Aardvark
I would think people claiming to be Christian that then support torture would be offensive to those who are truly attempting to live by the lessons Jesus Christ left us. Such as claiming humans torturing other humans can be acceptable under certain circumstances and then allowing that outlook to be attributed to Christianity.

Jim

Jim
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post #122 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 03:53 AM
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First off Jim,
I stated early on that I thought this question was somewhat directed as a christian slam by an atheist poster, Dope, and I did discuss it with the poster. We are diametrically opposed. . That in itself sets a precedence.
What were the poll questions? If for example it is based on waterboarding, rather than out and out doing physical and lasting mental damage? There is no knowledge of what was asked.
Who was polled???
Where was the poll conducted?? In the beltway?
Who was the poll conducted for?? Somebody paid for the service.
Then the Pew research center is oft times skewed. Most polls are, and out for an agenda. This definitely seems skewed and introduced here, again, by a person of atheist mindset, which is again skewed, like I as a christian would be on the other extreme (thus, no offense, Dope).

With all of that said, I don't condone torture, but I also need to ask what is considered torture? Some of these practices of loud rock music for hours on end and other silly annoyances are not torture, or I would be filing charges to a previous neighbor for permanent mental torture and anguish. Definition is key (that is an annoyance, not torture).
It gets annoying when christians again are thrown to the lions for simply having beliefs, and defending them and we are supposed to sit back in silence when atheists, radical muslims, and others speak their minds?
Nah, can't buy your mindset.
Also can't buy that christians prefer torture over non christians.
Do You Really Buy That?? I mean,,,,really??

AARDVARK
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post #123 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
First off Jim,
I stated early on that I thought this question was somewhat directed as a christian slam by an atheist poster, Dope, and I did discuss it with the poster. We are diametrically opposed. . That in itself sets a precedence.
What were the poll questions? If for example it is based on waterboarding, rather than out and out doing physical and lasting mental damage? There is no knowledge of what was asked.
Who was polled???
Where was the poll conducted?? In the beltway?
Who was the poll conducted for?? Somebody paid for the service.
Then the Pew research center is oft times skewed. Most polls are, and out for an agenda. This definitely seems skewed and introduced here, again, by a person of atheist mindset, which is again skewed, like I as a christian would be on the other extreme (thus, no offense, Dope).

With all of that said, I don't condone torture, but I also need to ask what is considered torture? Some of these practices of loud rock music for hours on end and other silly annoyances are not torture, or I would be filing charges to a previous neighbor for permanent mental torture and anguish. Definition is key (that is an annoyance, not torture).
It gets annoying when christians again are thrown to the lions for simply having beliefs, and defending them and we are supposed to sit back in silence when atheists, radical muslims, and others speak their minds?
Nah, can't buy your mindset.
Also can't buy that christians prefer torture over non christians.
Do You Really Buy That?? I mean,,,,really??

AARDVARK
Aardvark,

You sure talk alot and above you ask quite few questions but answers surely are limited when you are asked on your so called knowledgeable statements.......

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/off-...ml#post3460949
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post #124 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 07:30 AM
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Not true. Jakarta
Been pretty open about things. People just don't like the answers.
It asks for personal acceptance of a philosophy and personal responsibility, which these days seems lacking.

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post #125 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 07:50 AM
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^ You have to admit though, for someone who isn't interested in defending the church or religion, you sure spend a lot of time doing just that...
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post #126 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 07:58 AM
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Not true. Jakarta
Been pretty open about things. People just don't like the answers.
It asks for personal acceptance of a philosophy and personal responsibility, which these days seems lacking.

Aardvark
Yes, like when people hide behind phrases that suggest mistreating another human being might be acceptable if the damage done is not permanent. I suggest you use a metric like, how would you feel if someone did the same act to your child or wife?

We have no right to mistreat humans because we feel threatened by them. No parsing of words makes it right. I am surprised to hear someone who purports to be devoted to living life according to the lessons of Jesus Christ can be so comfortable with humans torturing other humans.

Jim

Last edited by JimSmith; 05-04-2009 at 08:03 AM.
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post #127 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
Yes, like when people hide behind phrases that suggest mistreating another human being might be acceptable if the damage done is not permanent. I suggest you use a metric like, how would you feel if someone did the same act to your child or wife?

We have no right to mistreat humans because we feel threatened by them. No parsing of words makes it right. I am surprised to hear someone who purports to be devoted to living life according to the lessons of Jesus Christ can be so comfortable with humans torturing other humans.

Jim
Pshaw...that whole "do unto others" nonsense was only the fucking Sermon on the Mount. Plus, Matthew was an asshole. Anyway, if Jesus REALLY meant it, he'd have said stuff like "love thy neighbor as you would yourself" 800 times...kinda like how he did in the book of John.

The more I read Matthew and his account of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, the more shocked I am that even Aardvark would defend torture.

Quote:
Matthew 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
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post #128 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:01 AM
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Again, Jim , and Obncgar
Define torture, and who says I support it? Sounds like your reading something into what I wrote, eh?
I will defend my own. Nothing unscriptural about that, but I don't go out looking for a fight. Self defense, or the defense of your land or country is not unscriptural. Your "turn the other cheek" has a differing meaning than it did in the days of Jesus, by the way, so don't fall back on that.
And as far as me talking down and then defending the churches on the other side. It is not that I believe all churches are defensible. There are some, however that do the right thing, and churches, in general are a good meeting place of like minds. It is rough to find one that does teach gospel principles and live them at the same time, but they are out there. Are they flawless? NO! They are inhabited by humans, and we are not flawless. You work around the flaws to the best of your ability and pray for guidance.

Seems like you want to pick apart the fine points, but negate the important points.
Important Point: Seek and Believe in Christ, or suffer the consequences. That's as simple as it gets. John ch3
The fine points come later.

Aardvark
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post #129 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Again, Jim , and Obncgar
Define torture, and who says I support it? Sounds like your reading something into what I wrote, eh?
I will defend my own. Nothing unscriptural about that, but I don't go out looking for a fight. Self defense, or the defense of your land or country is not unscriptural. Your "turn the other cheek" has a differing meaning than it did in the days of Jesus, by the way, so don't fall back on that.
And as far as me talking down and then defending the churches on the other side. It is not that I believe all churches are defensible. There are some, however that do the right thing, and churches, in general are a good meeting place of like minds. It is rough to find one that does teach gospel principles and live them at the same time, but they are out there. Are they flawless? NO! They are inhabited by humans, and we are not flawless. You work around the flaws to the best of your ability and pray for guidance.

Seems like you want to pick apart the fine points, but negate the important points.
Important Point: Seek and Believe in Christ, or suffer the consequences. That's as simple as it gets. John ch3
The fine points come later.

Aardvark
Explain that distinction please?

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #130 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:20 AM
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Again, Jim , and Obncgar
Define torture, and who says I support it? Sounds like your reading something into what I wrote, eh?
I will defend my own. Nothing unscriptural about that, but I don't go out looking for a fight. Self defense, or the defense of your land or country is not unscriptural. Your "turn the other cheek" has a differing meaning than it did in the days of Jesus, by the way, so don't fall back on that.
And as far as me talking down and then defending the churches on the other side. It is not that I believe all churches are defensible. There are some, however that do the right thing, and churches, in general are a good meeting place of like minds. It is rough to find one that does teach gospel principles and live them at the same time, but they are out there. Are they flawless? NO! They are inhabited by humans, and we are not flawless. You work around the flaws to the best of your ability and pray for guidance.

Seems like you want to pick apart the fine points, but negate the important points.
Important Point: Seek and Believe in Christ, or suffer the consequences. That's as simple as it gets. John ch3
The fine points come later.

Aardvark

but...but...but.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Jakarta
As I have said in my very first post.
He is alive,
..... and does frequent many churches , in many religions.
Tough concept, eh?

Aardvark
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