Churchgoers more likely to back torture - Page 12 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #111 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 08:05 PM
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It would seem the most impossible thing for humans to do is to keep one’s beliefs to oneself. That would truly be a miracle.
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post #112 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 08:18 PM
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jdc1244
You are apparently interested enough to read the opinions.
Nobody is asking you to participate. Sorta a lot of interest if you look at the related subject of "If Jesus Were Alive" with 75 or so pages.
Apparently a hot subject when research polls claim that ~75% of americans claim christianity, and yet the news media and the beltway doesn't get it. This is not to claim that 75% actually live up to the concepts, but they claim christianity, none the less.

So, Sounds to me like discussion is in order, regardless of your desire.
I wouldn't even bring it up unless the subject gets touched on, and then......
Won't however buckle under when confronted on the subject.

Aardvark
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post #113 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
edfreeman.
It isn't me that gets offended by the rejection of God/Jesus/Spirit, so when fun is made of those entities, I don't necessarily take personal offense, but instead feel for the souls of those who do this. Guess who does take offense, however?
Free will, (but not without consequences).
Jim Smith
If you feel that good and evil are nothing more than man made concepts, then we disagree. It's far deeper than that. You don't see the concept, as I stated some would not. You apparently believe there are no God/satanic forces. Personally, I have experienced both, but won't go into detail, except to say they are there. Believe it or not.
Obncgar
Your still hung up on churches as causing all of the ills instead of the good/evil concept as well. I've said my peace to you on the subject in the past, You don't buy it, and.....Free will , dude! You have been made aware. Free will!
Read John, especially ch 3. Takes all of 15 minutes if you read slow. Dare you!

Prayers
Aardvark
Religion and churches are inseparable. Of course I'm hung up on them. Churches are the physical manifestation of religiosity. One has a lot of trouble existing without the other. It's not impossible, but it's not easy enough to make churches obsolete.

Do you go to church? Regularly? If so, would you ever consider giving it up altogether?


Regarding John; how about 4:42?

Quote:
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Surely God can't begrudge someone who needs to hear FROM JESUS before deciding whether or not they believe in him...


Anyway, having re-read yet another translation of John now, what were you expecting would be the takeaway?
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post #114 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
jdc1244
You are apparently interested enough to read the opinions.
Nobody is asking you to participate. Sorta a lot of interest if you look at the related subject of "If Jesus Were Alive" with 75 or so pages.
Apparently a hot subject when research polls claim that ~75% of americans claim christianity, and yet the news media and the beltway doesn't get it. This is not to claim that 75% actually live up to the concepts, but they claim christianity, none the less.

So, Sounds to me like discussion is in order, regardless of your desire.
I wouldn't even bring it up unless the subject gets touched on, and then......
Won't however buckle under when confronted on the subject.

Aardvark
Should we make the laws of the land based and about Christianity?
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post #115 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 08:42 PM
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I bet that a vast majority of those torture supporters also believe that Bush invaded Iraq to protect us from terrorists and that Sadaam Hussein was personally responsible for the 9/11 attacks. One should never underestimate the power of government propaganda, and the level of ignorance of the US population.
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post #116 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 08:53 PM
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Germanstar.
There are a lot of church participants who go through the motions, and don't havve the personal relationship with the Lord.
Aardvark
Personal relationship with an imaginary being ........Wow! now that really takes the cake.......
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post #117 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 08:53 PM
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Kamil incarnated?
Similar . . . they both have their unwavering take on things . . . different takes altogether, though.

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post #118 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Who has set up the most hospitals? Who has been responsible for the actual idea of Hospitals?




So in sum, I would say that for millions of people who have been killed in the name of various religions, BILLIONS have been helped.

OK, Hospitals save people and they were started by religious folk

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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Not for nothing but the headline is trying to cast Churchgoers as hypocrites. Kind of like the old Dr.s and Guns thing:

- There are 700,000 physicians in the United States.
-- There are 120,000 accidental deaths in the United States caused by physicians every year, and the accidental death percentage per physician is 0.171.
-- There are 80 million gun owners in the United States.
-- There are 1,500 accidental deaths from guns every year, regardless of age group, and the accidental death percentage per gun owner is 0.0000188.

This means, that doctors are 9,000 times more deadly than gun owners.

But, you say surgeons are 9,000 times more deadly than guns
Which is it?
so, opinion is that Religion employs Surgeons to kill people by mistake?

NO NO NO~!
you see, the flaw in TNT's statistics is this:

Guns kill X amount of people. one gun, one person. correct?
Surgeons kill X amount of people, one surgeon, one person. WRONG!
Surgeons operate on many people per year, and their surgeries vary as to the probability of survival according to the patients pre-surgical health.
For the statistics to be correct you'd have to divide by the amount of people EACH surgeon operates on per year, then divide by the number of surgeons.

Try again TNT.

oh and to quote you TWICE again!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
just pointing out you need to be careful where you get your information from.
and....

Quite honestly it is ridiculous and in fact revisionist to assert what is plainly wrong.
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post #119 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
edfreeman.
It isn't me that gets offended by the rejection of God/Jesus/Spirit, so when fun is made of those entities, I don't necessarily take personal offense, but instead feel for the souls of those who do this. Guess who does take offense, however?
Free will, (but not without consequences).
Jim Smith
If you feel that good and evil are nothing more than man made concepts, then we disagree. It's far deeper than that. You don't see the concept, as I stated some would not. You apparently believe there are no God/satanic forces. Personally, I have experienced both, but won't go into detail, except to say they are there. Believe it or not.
Obncgar
Your still hung up on churches as causing all of the ills instead of the good/evil concept as well. I've said my peace to you on the subject in the past, You don't buy it, and.....Free will , dude! You have been made aware. Free will!
Read John, especially ch 3. Takes all of 15 minutes if you read slow. Dare you!

Prayers
Aardvark
Aardvark,

We disagree. Evil is a concept. Good is a concept. Forces are another thing altogether. To get the two mixed or co-mingled is delusional. You seem to enjoy the delusion. I seek to avoid it.

Organized religion built churches as icons of their power. A real follower of Christ does not need a fancy structure, or even a humble one decorated with gold and silver and stained glass to make decisions on how to live according to a set of principles that respect our fellow humans.

Recall this debate was started when a polling company asked "churchgoers" their opinion on whether it was ok for certain humans to torture other humans to extract information from them, and a majority of churchgoers expressed approval of such torture. The question this raises is where this majority of churchgoers were taught that humans torturing humans was acceptable? I sincerely hope it is not from one of the multitude of phrases that are often quoted from Bible, that document written by men that is held up as if it was the word of god. Because if it is, that surely condemns the Bible to another money making venture by man, and erases any validity it might have as a record of values attributed to Jesus Christ.

As long as your delusional view of good and evil does no harm to me, or anyone else, it is really your business and your business alone. It would be better for all if our "relationship" with god was private, and kept private. When it becomes public it also takes on a political bent, as god surely can tell if your intent is genuine. I mean, when Mafia bosses go to church on Sunday and give a bunch of blood money to the church, and the church accepts the blood money, and the Mafia bosses then go back to spilling blood for more money, do you think they are pulling the wool over god's eyes?

So, I am not here to argue with you about whether god exists or not. I entered this discussion because there seems to be a streak of pompous, self righteous, hypocrisy in that group of people who go to church, loudly claim their allegiance to god, and then find it ok to torture people and I wanted to find out if there was any chance that such people might look inward and see what hollow pieces of shit they are.

So far, it appears not.

Jim
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post #120 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 10:30 PM
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