Churchgoers more likely to back torture - Page 11 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #101 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 04:30 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Feel free to define down all you want. It still does not change the fact that the basis for our cultures, eastern and western, are based on the discoveries and patronage paid by religious organizations.

You choose to narrow yourself to the last 100 years and see only evil. For that I feel very sorry for you.

I prefer to look at the big picture and see that religion, even with all its faults, is at its core a good thing. Those who are not hypocrites and who live their lives according to the teachings of their God, are generally happier and have more to contribute to help society.
Organized religion has, for centuries, depended on having control of the processes of learning to read, write and to perform simple math. For the longest time, until really Johannes Gutenberg invented his printing press, the only people educated well enough to break free of the intellectual bullying of the various Churches were typically heavily invested in the Church's political strength becoming stronger. The Church depended on having legions of obedient little servants - willing to do its bidding not because they were intellectually free and strong enough to do so of their own free will, but because they were made to by the Church using various and sundry tactics centering around imposing mental anguish on those who were showing signs of being unwilling. Thus the concept of "god fearing" people somehow being good.

It is this "god fearing" state of mind that has been engendered by whatever means the Church has at its disposal - used to be a lot more than today, and they were a lot more successful than today (how many "Cathedrals" are under construction today that rival those constructed by the Church nearly a thousand years ago, like Notre Dame?) - that gives rise to the concept of church goers, those who truly belong to an organized religious community, are willing to let others do their thinking. Even the church calls them sheep, and "their god" or, in his absence, their priest or pastor, is the shepherd. None of this stuff indicates the Church is recruiting free, independent minds to make up their "flock."

Their are similar terms and descriptions of the "followers" in nearly every organized religion. So, just in case you were wondering why the picture of organized religion is not particularly highly regarded by all, it is mainly because the methods used by the various churches is to "gain control" of the "flock" and "shepherd" them along as the church sees fit. Which is universally, just like a political party, to increase the influence and size of the "flock" so the men running the churches have more and broader power.

All this leads to the perception by some that people who call themselves "churchgoers" are also likely to exhibit some of the characteristics of sheep because that is what the church wants. They are "god fearing" citizens, made to fear god by their church. Hey, it is all for the good, right?

Now, if the position these people take on torture is due to the church they attend or not may be nebulous. It is more likely that once they become god fearing they are made to fear other stuff by other authority figures as well. And, finally, the point that you should be getting out of all this is, if you are going to live a Christian life of Christian values and not be a sheep bound to a local "christian" church organization's shepherd of one kind or another, chances are you are going to find the idea of torture offensive. Jesus wasn't into it, so, why should someone who claims to be living a life to honor the words and teachings of Jesus think it is ok, and still claim to be honoring Jesus?

The "Churchgoers" tag is tied to the images of the sheep that make up the flock, who are thought highly of by the church's political leaders. Good old god fearing citizens. Likely afraid of all kinds of other authority figures. And ones that might torture. So, if the powerful say torture is ok, what is a little lamb to think but that it must be ok too? When was the last time the little lamb was really told to think for itself? The little lambs are more comfortable agreeing with some authority figure - pastor, priest, or politician with a connection to the Padre, pastor or priest. And then when asked, the lambs confirm the picture and the logic. And then you guys go and try to make it seem otherwise.

It is organized religion that is the evil here. Not the concept of living a wholesome life, respecting others and helping when and where you can.

Jim
JimSmith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #102 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Smackrattle's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Thanks Jim, I don't have the patience.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
Smackrattle is online now  
post #103 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 05:13 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Feb 2007
Vehicle: 300SD
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 11,191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
p100 is offline  
post #104 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 05:43 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2009
Vehicle: 96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Location: N/W Chicago in the cornfields
Posts: 12,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
It would be prudent to look at the evils of this world as the human nature of the original sin of Adam/Eve as tempted by satan, and then you realize the source. Then comes how to combat it. Not easy, but christianity and Judaism before it were the sources.
When things have gotten distorted by religions claiming to be Godly , it is because they deviated from the original intent. Again look at the source, since it does it's best to influence.
Overall , if you had no structure to combat satanic forces , where would we be? Churches, even though they sometimes deviate are the sources of good. They need to be kept in check as best as possible by the flock. This for the most part over history worked pretty well, but there have been some gaffs .
Then again the overall picture has been far more positive than negative. To say otherwise is critical and I believe naive.
God/Jesus/Spirit is the first line of defense, and usually through a form of church, but not exclusively.
(yet if you don't believe or get the concept of good and evil, God and Satanic forces, nothing I type here matters)

Aardvark
aardvark is offline  
post #105 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 05:50 PM
Surely A Large Human
 
Qubes's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2006
Vehicle: '08 C219
Location: Between Earth and Mars
Posts: 34,252
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
^ Now I have "The Inquisition" song stuck in my head.

"Autos-de-fe', what's the autos-de-fe'? It's what you oughtn'a do but you do anyway."
Qubes is online now  
post #106 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 05:57 PM
Surely A Large Human
 
Qubes's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2006
Vehicle: '08 C219
Location: Between Earth and Mars
Posts: 34,252
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Overall , if you had no structure to combat satanic forces , where would we be? Churches, even though they sometimes deviate are the sources of good.
OMFG, Aardvark. Seriously. Where better BUT churches to control the minds of man and use them for evil purposes, if you're among the Satanic forces? Do you think you can keep Satan out by saying some silly words and waving your hand and tossing some water about?

If YOU believe you know well enough how to spot Satanic forces and are POSITIVE your church is free of them, I have a startling revelation for you...you're exactly wrong. You could not BE more wrong.

Churches are mechanisms of man. One could easily argue that churches are tools of Satan, citing the countless varieties of them as proof. There's something that appeals to everyone, yet nobody can agree on which one is right.

"Sheeple" are minions of the devil, whether they know it or not. The people who carve pentagrams into their foreheads and kill cows and stupid crap like that are idiots. They never accomplish anything, they just think they do. If they REALLY knew anything and wanted to serve Satan, they'd be running a Christian or non-denominational church of some kind.
Qubes is online now  
post #107 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 06:00 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
It would be prudent to look at the evils of this world as the human nature of the original sin of Adam/Eve as tempted by satan, and then you realize the source. Then comes how to combat it. Not easy, but christianity and Judaism before it were the sources.
When things have gotten distorted by religions claiming to be Godly , it is because they deviated from the original intent. Again look at the source, since it does it's best to influence.
Overall , if you had no structure to combat satanic forces , where would we be? Churches, even though they sometimes deviate are the sources of good. They need to be kept in check as best as possible by the flock. This for the most part over history worked pretty well, but there have been some gaffs .
Then again the overall picture has been far more positive than negative. To say otherwise is critical and I believe naive.
God/Jesus/Spirit is the first line of defense, and usually through a form of church, but not exclusively.
(yet if you don't believe or get the concept of good and evil, God and Satanic forces, nothing I type here matters)

Aardvark
Good and evil are concepts. Doing good and doing evil are deeds. There can be effects, wanted and unwanted from such deeds. I suppose those effects, could be construed to be result of "forces of good" and "forces of evil." But in the grand scheme of things, good and evil don't fit the definition of Force.

So, the words are selected to create an image. Which is all fine and good as long as one is encouraged to separate the message of Jesus or god or whatever from the words used by men to get the message across.

Organized religion is a man-made perversion of the principles of good taught by Jesus or the prophets or others generally credited with enunciating the message of good being triumphant over evil. Organized religion requires people to behave as sheep and allow themselves to be herded, controlled and subjected to various cruelties as individuals, typically a form of mental anguish, like severe guilt or loss of self esteem, to remain viable.

Teaching people to do "the right thing" because it is the right thing and not because bad shit will pursue them for the rest of their lives, or for an eternity after they die is a fundamental objection I have with organized religion. So, knowing the difference between right and wrong is vital, I agree. And torturing another human being is wrong. That the majority of churchgoers don't find it wrong is an indication that their "faith" is in something other than knowing the difference between right and wrong, and choosing to do right.

Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #108 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 06:12 PM
Moderately subtle
 
edfreeman's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2003
Vehicle: 94 E500, 97 500SL
Location: Soddy Daisy, TN
Posts: 8,519
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Send a message via AIM to edfreeman
I gotta tell you, between this and the "If Jesus were alive today" threads, this aardvark guy has turned more cheeks than I thought possible. You have to admire that whether you agree with him or not.

edfreeman is offline  
post #109 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 06:55 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2009
Vehicle: 96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Location: N/W Chicago in the cornfields
Posts: 12,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
edfreeman.
It isn't me that gets offended by the rejection of God/Jesus/Spirit, so when fun is made of those entities, I don't necessarily take personal offense, but instead feel for the souls of those who do this. Guess who does take offense, however?
Free will, (but not without consequences).
Jim Smith
If you feel that good and evil are nothing more than man made concepts, then we disagree. It's far deeper than that. You don't see the concept, as I stated some would not. You apparently believe there are no God/satanic forces. Personally, I have experienced both, but won't go into detail, except to say they are there. Believe it or not.
Obncgar
Your still hung up on churches as causing all of the ills instead of the good/evil concept as well. I've said my peace to you on the subject in the past, You don't buy it, and.....Free will , dude! You have been made aware. Free will!
Read John, especially ch 3. Takes all of 15 minutes if you read slow. Dare you!

Prayers
Aardvark
aardvark is offline  
post #110 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 07:23 PM
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
I gotta tell you, between this and the "If Jesus were alive today" threads, this aardvark guy has turned more cheeks than I thought possible. You have to admire that whether you agree with him or not.
Kamil incarnated?
DP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Torture or medicine eric242340 Off-Topic 21 06-27-2008 02:24 PM
    Mercedes Torture? Teutone Off-Topic 6 01-08-2008 01:06 AM
    seems we torture our own too mzsmbs Off-Topic 2 07-19-2006 11:59 AM
    Bush makes important speech on torture, saying "We do not torture" FeelTheLove Off-Topic 13 11-09-2005 11:13 AM
    Torture... Thinkingaboutit R171 SLK-Class 4 10-22-2005 08:59 PM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome