Cap and Trade. Who thinks that this will work? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 06:37 PM
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NO one in their right mind.
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I think it is funny that something that is supposed to help, would actually not have any effect on the environment.
And your solutions are…?
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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower
If energy costs are going to go up for Americans, shouldn’t there be significant environmental benefit and progress towards reversing climate change? You would think so.

But even if the most aggressive of cap and trade schemes were properly adhered to, scientists that both advocate and oppose a cap and trade program widely agree that the maximum drop to the earth’s temperature would be no more than 0.07 degrees Celsius by the year 2050.

To give some sense of just how negligible this decrease would be, we cannot even estimate the absolute mean surface temperature of the earth within 0.07. What’s worse is that cap and trade actually provides incentives to emit more carbon, not less.

If industries understand they are working within a legal framework when they output carbon, the public pressure for them to cut down is weakened. Evidence of this can be seen in Europe where most countries have seen carbon emissions go up, even though the European Union has had a cap and trade regime in place since 2005.


Nice, cuntpaste.

Apparently the attribution of sources is no longer one of your signposts of personal integrity.



2. It doesn’t help the environment: If energy costs are going to go up for Americans, shouldn’t there be significant environmental benefit and progress towards reversing climate change? You would think so. But even if the most aggressive of cap and trade schemes were properly adhered to, scientists that both advocate and oppose a cap and trade program widely agree that the maximum drop to the earth’s temperature would be no more than 0.07 degrees Celsius by the year 2050. To give some sense of just how negligible this decrease would be, we cannot even estimate the absolute mean surface temperature of the earth within 0.07. What’s worse is that cap and trade actually provides incentives to emit more carbon, not less. An article by the Christian Science Monitor explains: “By turning carbon emissions into commodities that can be bought and sold, cap-and-trade policies could remove the stigma from producing such emissions.” In other words, if industries understand they are working within a legal framework when they output carbon, the public pressure for them to cut down is weakened. Evidence of this can be seen in Europe where most countries have seen carbon emissions go up, even though the European Union has had a cap and trade regime in place since 2005.




Post #3.....



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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Actually the goals are not the reduction of environmental pollution. If that were the case then all countries would be subject to the same levels and outputs.

What it is, is an attempt by liberal interest groups to try and give a hand out to less industrialized nations.

Let’s take a closer look at how cap and trade is fairing where it actually has been put into play. The EU is watching carbon emission levels rise despite the fact that they have had a cap and trade system since 2005.

Emissions for all EU countries went up on average 2.1 percent between 2000 and 2004. Compare this with the United States where currently no such regulatory regime exists and yet emissions went up only 1.3 percent during the same time period.




3. It doesn’t work where it has been tried: Speaking of Europe, let’s take a closer look at how cap and trade is fairing. As mentioned earlier, the EU is watching carbon emission levels rise despite the fact that they have had a cap and trade system since 2005. Furthermore, the Heartland Institute reports that 12 of the 15 EU nations taking part in the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, a program that sets greenhouse gas reduction targets and serves as a precursor to cap and trade, are failing to meet their reduction targets, with three going over by more than 10 percent and another three going over by more than 20 percent. In fact, emissions for all EU countries went up on average 2.1 percent between 2000 and 2004. Compare this with the United States where currently no such regulatory regime exists and yet emissions went up only 1.3 percent during the same time period. Nonetheless, President Obama has announced an aggressive set of targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, promising to “work expeditiously with key stakeholders and the Congress to develop an economy-wide emissions reduction program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions approximately 14 percent below 2005 levels by 2020, and approximately 83 percent below 2005 levels by 2050.”


Top 10 Reasons to Oppose Cap and Trade | FreedomWorks
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:12 PM
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Wow....ol' boy takes a punch though, doesn't he?
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:16 PM
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This is not the first time.
Do I need to buy a tig or a mig?
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:19 PM
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^ Gonna weld your dick shut on vacation?
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:19 PM
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BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | 'Safe' climate means 'no to coal'
"But the scientists say that without major curbs on fossil fuel use, 2C will probably be reached by 2050."

That's no chicken feed
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:20 PM
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^ Gonna weld your dick shut on vacation?
Probably, the damned 190E is still stalling and I ain't getting any
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:40 PM
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^ Which is a COMPLETE waste of time and treasure when we already are overstreched. Yes, we may need to regress a little, but we can catch up in the future. It's just plain bad business just like pissing away $325k for a vanity picture shoot.
Well, let's break that down a bit. First, the $325K is a red herring. Flight crews have to fly X number of hours, whether on a photo op or terrain boxes. We have a SAM flight that does touch and goes out of LEX every quarter. So, that $325K is spent either way [but it sure sounds good on the ol' rightwing blogsphere].

Next, what is the waste of time and treasure? Have you seen the project plans or budgets to understand the systems approach to understand what is expected?

How can you call that shot that it is bad biz if you have not seen/analyzed the plan?

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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Actually the goals are not the reduction of environmental pollution. If that were the case then all countries would be subject to the same levels and outputs.

What it is, is an attempt by liberal interest groups to try and give a hand out to less industrialized nations.

Let’s take a closer look at how cap and trade is fairing where it actually has been put into play. The EU is watching carbon emission levels rise despite the fact that they have had a cap and trade system since 2005.

Emissions for all EU countries went up on average 2.1 percent between 2000 and 2004. Compare this with the United States where currently no such regulatory regime exists and yet emissions went up only 1.3 percent during the same time period.
um, how much of that do you think was due to offshoring of our manufacturing base and slipstreaming of efficient power producers for the past 15-20 years? Whereas Europe has had those stricter rules in place for some time meaning their emission changes would have occurred earlier than the 2000-2004 sample period.

I will ask you the same question I asked Stu, have you seen and read the project plans and projections from the project architects for this systems management project?

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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by isthisdave View Post
Nice, cuntpaste.

Apparently the attribution of sources is no longer one of your signposts of personal integrity.




Top 10 Reasons to Oppose Cap and Trade | FreedomWorks
WOW, CSM AND Heartland Institute.

Should we tell him about the Competitive Enterprise Institute. He can get REALLY clear, unbiased information from those guys. And most likely a really cool autographed photo of Senator Inhofe.

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