Obama and the CIA - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Obama and the CIA

A President can't placate the left and keep America safe...



President Obama on Monday paid his first formal visit to CIA headquarters, in order, as he put it, to "underscore the importance" of the agency and let its staff "know that you've got my full support." Assuming he means it, the President should immediately declassify all memos concerning what intelligence was gleaned, and what plots foiled, by the interrogations of high-level al Qaeda detainees in the wake of September 11.

This suggestion was first made by former Vice President Dick Cheney, who said he found it "a little bit disturbing" that the Obama Administration had decided to release four Justice Department memos detailing the CIA's interrogation practices while not giving the full picture of what the interrogations yielded in actionable intelligence. Yes, it really is disturbing, especially given the bogus media narrative that has now developed around those memos.

Thus, contrary to the claim that the memos detail "brutal" techniques used by the CIA in its interrogation of detainees (including 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed), what they mainly show is the lengths to which the Justice Department went not to cross the line into torture. "Torture is abhorrent both to American law and values and to international norms," wrote then Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Steven Bradbury on the very first page of his May 10, 2005 memo. Regarding waterboarding, an August 2002 memo from then Assistant Attorney General (now federal Judge) Jay Bybee stresses that the CIA had informed him that "the procedures will be stopped if deemed medically necessary to prevent severe mental or physical harm."

The memos also give the lie to a leaked 2007 report from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), based exclusively on the say-so of KSM and other "high-value" detainees, that "an improvised thick collar . . . was placed around their necks and used by their interrogators to slam them against the walls."

As the Bybee memo notes, the "wall" was a "flexible false wall . . . constructed to create a loud sound"; that "it is the individual's shoulder blades that hit the wall"; and that the purpose of the collar was "to help prevent whiplash." If this is torture, the word has lost all meaning.

Meanwhile, this is the third time an ICRC report about U.S. treatment of the detainees has been leaked, in violation of its own longstanding policies and of the agreement by which its representatives are allowed to visit prisoners. The Red Cross appears to have made little or no attempt to investigate whether KSM's claims were exaggerated. The episode shows again that the ICRC has become as much a political, as humanitarian, operation.

Also instructive is the context in which the interrogations took place -- less than a year after the 9/11 attacks. Writing about Abu Zubaydeh, whom the CIA believed "is one of the highest ranking members" of al Qaeda, Mr. Bybee wrote that "the interrogation team is certain that he has additional information that he refuses to divulge. Specifically, he is withholding information regarding terrorist networks in the United States or in Saudi Arabia and information regarding plans to conduct attacks within the United States or against our interests overseas. Zubaydeh has become accustomed to a certain level of treatment and displays no signs of willingness to disclose further information."

In other words, CIA interrogators wanted to use these techniques in 2002 to break a terrorist they believed had information that could potentially save American lives. Rest assured that if the CIA hadn't taken these steps and the U.S. had been hit again, the same people denouncing these memos now would have been demanding another 9/11 Commission to deplore their inaction.

The memos give considerable indication both of the sheer quantity, as well as some of the specifics, of the intelligence gathered through the interrogations. "You have informed us," wrote Mr. Bradbury in the May 30, 2005 memo, "that the interrogation of KSM -- once enhanced techniques were employed -- led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles. You have informed us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of . . . Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell . . . tasked with the execution of the 'Second Wave.'"

All in all, Mr. Bybee added, "the intelligence derived from CIA detainees has resulted in more than 6,000 intelligence reports and, in 2004, accounted for approximately half of CTC's [the CIA's Counterterrorist Center] reporting on al Qaeda."

In a saner world (or at least one that accurately reported on original documents), all of this would be a point of pride for the CIA. It would serve as evidence of the Bush Administration's scrupulousness regarding the life and health of the detainees, and demonstrate how wrong are the claims that harsh interrogations yielded no useful intelligence.

Instead, the release of the memos has unleashed the liberal mob, with renewed calls in Congress for a "truth commission" and even, perhaps, Judge Bybee's impeachment and prosecutions of the other authors. Mr. Obama has hinted that while his Administration won't prosecute CIA officials, it may try to sate the mob by going after Bush officials who wrote the memos.

One major concern here is what Mr. Obama's decision to release these memos says about his own political leadership. He claims that one of his goals as President is to restore more comity to our politics, especially concerning national security. He also knows he needs a CIA willing to take risks to keep the country safe. Yet Mr. Obama seems more than willing to indulge the revenge fantasies of the left, as long as its potential victims served a different President. And while he is willing to release classified documents about interrogation techniques, Mr. Obama refuses to release documents that more fully discuss their results.

All of this might appease the President's MoveOn.org base, but he can't expect to satisfy them without also weakening American intelligence capabilities. The risk-averse CIA that so grievously failed in the run-up to 9/11 was a product of a spy culture that still remembered the Church Committee of the 1970s and the Iran-Contra recriminations of the 1980s. Mr. Obama needs to stop this score-settling now, and he can start by promptly releasing the documents that reveal what the CIA learned from its interrogations.

Obama and the CIA - WSJ.com

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 09:36 AM
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
The CIA is and has been inept for a LONG TIME. You can't blame its shortcomings on President Obama.
What President Obama did was a wake up call to evaluate the check and balances that agency has to deal with when working with the White House. It's main purpose is to SERVE the White House so it must adapt to the new philosophy in town as practiced today. People in that agency that feel like they got betrayed or that President Obama committed treason for divulging the "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" should step aside and GTFO.
DP is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
What Obama's doing will have all CIA, FBI, NSA, NCIS, etc. agents looking over their shoulders and thinking twice about doing anything to stem terrorist acts aimed at killing all of us. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Obama is working for our enemies!

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 04:49 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Feb 2007
Vehicle: 300SD
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 11,191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
What Obama's doing will have all CIA, FBI, NSA, NCIS, etc. agents looking over their shoulders and thinking twice about doing anything to stem terrorist acts aimed at killing all of us. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Obama is working for our enemies!
And yet it was your dunce hero G.W. Bush who failed to act on multiple very explicit warnings from the CIA and let the 9/11 attack happen. When A CIA agent visited him in Crawford Texas and briefed him on planned airliner hijackings, Bush said: " Now you have covered your ass" And went back to cutting wood without any action. Yet you persistently fail to lament on that point, and systematically omit the obvious. And that is criminal negligence on part of Bush.
p100 is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 04:54 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
slybydesign's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2007
Vehicle: My Two Left Feet
Location: S.D. Cali
Posts: 3,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
What Obama's doing will have all CIA, FBI, NSA, NCIS, etc. agents looking over their shoulders and thinking twice about doing anything to stem terrorist acts aimed at killing all of us. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Obama is working for our enemies!
You seriously have mental issues but the good news, under Obama's health care reform you can get treatment for that.






3. Paul Hamm, Gymnast: I owe a lot to my parents, especially my mother and father.
slybydesign is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 04:57 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 11,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Obama triggers firestorm in CIA interrogation case
Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:24pm EDT

* Obama decision on interrogation memos spurs anger

* Fears raised on "show trials" for Bush officials

* Attorney general repeats "no one is above the law" (Adds moveon.org petition, Senate report, paragraphs 19-20)

By Steve Holland http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCan.../idUSN22525694

WASHINGTON, April 22 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama came under strong criticism on Wednesday for leaving the door open to the prosecution of former Bush administration officials who authorized severe CIA interrogation procedures.

Obama's decision to release classified memos last Thursday that detailed aggressive techniques on terrorism suspects, including waterboarding, sleep deprivation and forced nudity, has triggered a political firestorm in Washington.

Politicians on the left are eager to launch investigations into the Bush-era policies that were part of the effort to prevent a repeat of the Sept. 11 attacks, while those on the right said Obama seems to be breaking a pledge to look forward, not review the past.

Karl Rove, who was a top aide to former President George W. Bush, accused Obama of seeking to conduct "show trials" a day after the president left open the possibility of prosecuting officials who provided legal analysis of interrogation procedures.

Rove told Reuters: "If the Obama administration insists on criminalizing policy disagreements, how can they place any limits on who they prosecute?"

"Everyone in the interrogation process would have to be treated the same," he said, including the CIA agents, the physicians who monitored interrogation sessions, and the lawyers who researched and wrote the memos.

The chain could reach "to the leadership of the intelligence community to the legislators in both parties and the Bush administration officials who were briefed on these memos and agreed to them," he said.

"It is now clear that the Obama White House didn't think before it tried to appease the hard left of the Democratic Party," Rove said.

'NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW'

Attorney General Eric Holder said the Justice Department will follow the law wherever it leads in probing U.S. officials behind CIA interrogation policies.

"No one is above the law," he said, reiterating that the department had no intention of prosecuting CIA interrogators who acted "in good faith" to follow official legal guidance.

The controversy threatened to become a distraction for Obama as he seeks to keep Americans' attention on his efforts to rebuild the U.S. economy.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters that Obama believes the memos and their release should be a moment for reflection, not a moment for retribution.

Any decision to prosecute anyone, he said, would be made by the Justice Department, not the president or the White House. "I think that the lawyers that are involved are plenty capable of determining whether any law has been broken," he said.

Three key U.S. senators, Republicans John McCain and Lindsey Graham and former Democrat-turned-independent Joe Lieberman, issued a joint letter to Obama strongly urging him not to prosecute government officials who provided legal advice related to detainee interrogations.

"Pursuing such prosecutions would, we believe, have serious negative effects on the candor with which officials in any administration provide their best advice," wrote the senators, who all had opposed the harsh interrogation tactics.

On Capitol Hill, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Democrat, renewed his call for creation of a special commission to investigate the severe interrogations methods he and other critics have said amounted to torture.

Leahy said if the votes cannot be mustered among lawmakers to create such a bipartisan commission, he would hold an investigative hearing and would expect other congressional committees to do so as well.

"I want someone to tell us exactly what happened so that it won't happen again," Leahy told reporters.

A liberal group, Moveon.org, asked readers on its website to sign a petition calling on the Obama administration to appoint a special prosecutor "to investigate and prosecute the architects of the Bush-era torture program."

Former national security adviser Condoleezza Rice approved the CIA's interrogation program, including waterboarding, in 2002 and Vice President Dick Cheney affirmed White House support a year later, a Senate Intelligence Committee report said on Wednesday.

A former Bush White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer, said if a probe is opened up, "Barack Obama will regret this as one of the worst moments of his presidency, because it will set off a multi-year, extraordinarily divisive, all-consuming Washington scandal/controversy and everyone will end up looking bad."

(Additional reporting by Randall Mikkelsen, Thomas Ferraro, Ross Colvin and Tabassum Zakaria; editing by Philip Barbara and Eric Beech)

© All photographs and likenesses of Multipurpose are protected under copyright
law. Any use of photographs in whole or in part is strictly prohibited
unless authorization is granted in writing by copyright holder. All rights
reserved.
Multipurpose is online now  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by p100 View Post
And yet it was your dunce hero G.W. Bush who failed to act on multiple very explicit warnings from the CIA and let the 9/11 attack happen. When A CIA agent visited him in Crawford Texas and briefed him on planned airliner hijackings, Bush said: " Now you have covered your ass" And went back to cutting wood without any action. Yet you persistently fail to lament on that point, and systematically omit the obvious. And that is criminal negligence on part of Bush.
That sounds more like Criminal Ignorance on your part!

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 05:22 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Stuantle's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Keep pushin' 0. Divide the country.
Stuantle is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 05:29 PM
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuantle View Post
Keep pushin' 0. Divide the country.
Nope, that seems to be YOUR plan
DP is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 05:53 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
jdc1244's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2003
Vehicle: 1991 300 SE
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 18,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
You seriously have mental issues but the good news, under Obama's health care reform you can get treatment for that.
Perhaps but to no avail.
jdc1244 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    CIA Waterboarding Stuantle Off-Topic 77 04-19-2009 05:32 PM
    the CIA broke my 300CD Darkstar7981 W123 E,CE,D,CD,TD,TE Class 7 02-23-2008 02:14 AM
    Ex CIA Chief is a... offroadwarrior Off-Topic 9 05-01-2007 08:43 AM
    The CIA and covert support of literature Botnst Off-Topic 0 04-27-2007 06:56 PM
    Internet blows CIA cover firstmb Off-Topic 2 03-12-2006 06:11 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome