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post #31 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by woodsbenz View Post
I just bought a gun and had tp pass a gun safety test and a background check, and I have to wait 10 days to pick it up. How much more strict do they need to be?
An unarmed bank robber in California walks into the local bank, hands the teller a note which reads:

"Give me all your money, or I'll be back in 10 days with a gun and I'll shoot you!

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post #32 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by p100 View Post
An unarmed bank robber in California walks into the local bank, hands the teller a note which reads:

"Give me all your money, or I'll be back in 10 days with a gun and I'll shoot you!

Puhleeze. You think this criminal would be aquiring a gun that way?

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post #33 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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So let's see...

Orange County (CA) Register on Sunday, September 19, 1993 printed this:

PRIVATE FIREARMS STOP CRIME 2.5 MILLION TIMES EACH YEAR

This is the text and footnotes to an article that appeared in v. 18 of the AMERICAN J. OF CRIM. LAW (1991).

The Value of Civilian Arms Possession As Deterrent To Crime Or Defense Against Crime

And of Course this appears in T. Gurr, VIOLENCE IN AMERICA v. 1 (1989)

Firearms and Violent Crime

All of this, not to mention the fact that the best estimates gauge Crimes committed with Illegally obtained guns from 95.5% down to 85%. So why are we spending so much time and money on Legal firearms sales and ownership?

Because politicians want to be seen as doing something. No politician in their right mind is going to go out and say "Every adult should be required to own a firearm and a concealed weapons permit."

That would really curb crime but Government won't do that as they need you to be dependent upon them.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #34 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 08:30 PM
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No not at all. Funny how you say that Republicans have violated all these and yet Congress and the Supreme court says they haven't.

If anything Republicans have been the ones who are steadfast and consistent on the constitution.

And on the flip side by saying that Republicans do not adhere to these certain parts of the constitution, so why should we follow the 2nd Ammendment, it is ok to pick and choose which parts anyone wants to listen to is your assertion?

For the sake of argument, let's say that the aforementioned parts of the Constitution have been ignored. We are now free to ignore the rest?

That seems a little childish even for you McBare.
Not at all, and IF you actually kick in the old critical thinking [should it actually exist] you would see that I didn't suggest that. Just pointing out the fuzziness of EXACT words.

And NO, the Republicans have not been the one's who have been steadfast and consistent with the Constitution.

And NO, the Congress has not said they have not been violated.

And NO, the Supreme Court has not exonerated the violations as they have existed. As one example of many:

Quote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that foreign terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay have rights under the U.S. Constitution to challenge their detention in civilian courts.

The justices, in a 5-4 ruling Thursday (.pdf), handed the Bush administration its third setback at the high court since 2004 over its treatment of prisoners who are being held indefinitely and without charges at the U.S. naval base in Cuba.

"We hold these petitioners do have the habeas corpus privilege," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote for the court majority in the 70-page opinion.

He said that Congress had failed to create an adequate alternative for the prisoners held at the U.S. military base in Cuba to contest their detention.

Not surprisingly, Roberts, Scalia, Alito and Thomas were the dissenting opinions. In Scalia's dissent, he wrote:

"...it sets our military commanders the impossible task of proving to a civilian court, under whatever standards this Court devises in the future, that evidence supports the confinement of each and every enemy prisoner. The Nation will live to regret what the Court has done today."
Do you EVER think or research before typing or just throw words on the screen and hope that, by some miracle that they mean something and you don't look dumb?

The KEY is to not ignore ANY of the elements of the Constitution yet learn that it is a living working document, not a static instrument.

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post #35 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 08:33 PM
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Blade cuts both ways. But, I agree, we should implement all of it exactly as the people who wrote it intended.
And that is where SCOTUS come in. Interpreting what was "intended".

So far they have given a tremendous amount of latitude to the conditions of the day and the flow of history and never ruled on EXACT wording as if the syntax and grammar were sacrosanct.

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post #36 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
And that is where SCOTUS come in. Interpreting what was "intended".

So far they have given a tremendous amount of latitude to the conditions of the day and the flow of history and never ruled on EXACT wording as if the syntax and grammar were sacrosanct.
The latitude is contained in the amendment process. Intent is their job.

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post #37 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 08:40 PM
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reputable, and quite unbiased sites to gather "truthful" information on guns.
here's a quote from the first article:


"Well, the survey mostly generated results pretty consistent with those of a dozen previous surveys which generally indicates"


not for nothing but, using those words isn't so concise. I'm not sure he is SURE of his findings.

besides the fact that firearms and liberty is the name of the site.

I'm not saying it isn't true... I'm just doubting.
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post #38 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
So let's see...

Orange County (CA) Register on Sunday, September 19, 1993 printed this:

PRIVATE FIREARMS STOP CRIME 2.5 MILLION TIMES EACH YEAR

This is the text and footnotes to an article that appeared in v. 18 of the AMERICAN J. OF CRIM. LAW (1991).

The Value of Civilian Arms Possession As Deterrent To Crime Or Defense Against Crime

And of Course this appears in T. Gurr, VIOLENCE IN AMERICA v. 1 (1989)

Firearms and Violent Crime

All of this, not to mention the fact that the best estimates gauge Crimes committed with Illegally obtained guns from 95.5% down to 85%. So why are we spending so much time and money on Legal firearms sales and ownership?

Because politicians want to be seen as doing something. No politician in their right mind is going to go out and say "Every adult should be required to own a firearm and a concealed weapons permit."

That would really curb crime but Government won't do that as they need you to be dependent upon them.
Let's see, nobody in government or Congress or the Administration has brought up ANY legislation regarding gun control. The only conversation at all has been regarding assault weapons and Mexico and the trafficking in between the two countries which is illegal now. That has made the conversation more about [yes, you guessed it] enforcing the regulations on the books.

So what is the reason for the churn all of a sudden?

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post #39 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Not at all, and IF you actually kick in the old critical thinking [should it actually exist] you would see that I didn't suggest that. Just pointing out the fuzziness of EXACT words.

And NO, the Republicans have not been the one's who have been steadfast and consistent with the Constitution.

And NO, the Congress has not said they have not been violated.

And NO, the Supreme Court has not exonerated the violations as they have existed. As one example of many:



Do you EVER think or research before typing or just throw words on the screen and hope that, by some miracle that they mean something and you don't look dumb?

The KEY is to not ignore ANY of the elements of the Constitution yet learn that it is a living working document, not a static instrument.
Ahh yes Habeas Corpus. How does that exactly translate into unlawful holding or imprisonment?

The Bush Administration made a call that was based upon the understanding of the law. Turns out that 5 out of 9 justices disagreed with him on Habeas Corpus.

So now they get to go to the Ameican Court system. Ok.

Again, how did Bush violate the Constitution? Show me where the court found that Bush committed the crime of violating the constitution?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #40 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 08:47 PM
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The latitude is contained in the amendment process. Intent is their job.
In the Amendment process and by Congressional and Executive action. That has been fully sanctioned by the SCOTUS for 200 years. Every time a new Cabinet is established it is challenged and it is shot down. Every controversial [and many that aren't]law that is passed and signed is challenged and run through the court system and, on nearly NO time has Congress been told they have no right to make laws or that the President has no right to sign and enforce them. Seems that the Amendment process is for very fundamental issues, not simply the laws that run our daily lives [equal rights, voting rights, term limits, voting age, etc].

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