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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 10:03 PM
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Thumbs down Is this about tea bagging?

If this is about tea bagging, I just wish to say that I only trust loose tea leaves fermented and packed the Darjeeling way, submerged for 3 minutes in 190-degree water prior to serving. Down with tea bags.

As for this and all similar threads, it seems is the eternal defenders of the "throne" vs conservatives who get labeled all kinds of things in the name of a new order. Boooooooo!
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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 10:06 PM
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And it all falls squarely on the State's shoulders McBear. The Fed sets the basic regulations and the states then can make them more stringent or not.

The failure of the companies that own the mines is what you are failing to include! You of all people! What is the deal there?

You are saying that it is some bureaucrat in D.C.'s responsibility to make the mines in Utah, Kentucky, Penssylvania, safe! That is ridiculous on its face.

On top of that you claim that this is a result of lack of regulatory enforcement by the Bush administration and you support it with and Article illustrating the fact that Bush created more regulation!

How does that work?
It works because he created more regulation AFTER a whole bunch of people died due to neglect, much like he created TARP AFTER a whole bunch of people lost a metric shitload of money. Note the pattern.

As for Mine safety, if you still, after reading the federal links think it "falls squarely on the state" and that the Feds "just set the regulations" you are hopeless.

No, I don't think it is a bureaucrat in D.C.'s responsibility to make the mines in Utah, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, safe, it is Mine Inspectors at regional offices all throughout the country who go underground and INSPECT and hold owners to the fire to make sure they comply with regulations that make mines safe. Look at who levies the fines and the federal charges for neglect. It is NOT the states.

So while you might think it better that it is a States Rights issue, at this point in time the MSHA is the big dog that is suppose to protect miners. Under Sec Chao that job did not get done. An inordinate number of people died. Bush reacted with additional regulations when the big spotlight hit him to do so.

But please keep trying on the mining issue. I have been living with the mining industry since I was born. Even at midnight I can call 17 relatives who either work in or own mines right now, most for 20+ years. My best friend since kindergarten is a lawyer for the EPA who specializes in Mines. She is on a AIM session with me NOW.

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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 10:21 PM
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To be honest, the title to this thread is misleading.
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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 10:24 PM
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To be honest, the title to this thread is misleading.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 10:35 PM
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To be honest, the title to this thread is misleading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64Ed5iLu4M
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post #46 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:00 PM
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It works because he created more regulation AFTER a whole bunch of people died due to neglect, much like he created TARP AFTER a whole bunch of people lost a metric shitload of money. Note the pattern.

As for Mine safety, if you still, after reading the federal links think it "falls squarely on the state" and that the Feds "just set the regulations" you are hopeless.

No, I don't think it is a bureaucrat in D.C.'s responsibility to make the mines in Utah, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, safe, it is Mine Inspectors at regional offices all throughout the country who go underground and INSPECT and hold owners to the fire to make sure they comply with regulations that make mines safe. Look at who levies the fines and the federal charges for neglect. It is NOT the states.

So while you might think it better that it is a States Rights issue, at this point in time the MSHA is the big dog that is suppose to protect miners. Under Sec Chao that job did not get done. An inordinate number of people died. Bush reacted with additional regulations when the big spotlight hit him to do so.

But please keep trying on the mining issue. I have been living with the mining industry since I was born. Even at midnight I can call 17 relatives who either work in or own mines right now, most for 20+ years. My best friend since kindergarten is a lawyer for the EPA who specializes in Mines. She is on a AIM session with me NOW.
OK. Let me get this straight.

You assert that the mine accidents happened as a direct result of the LACK OF REGULATORY ENFORCEMENT. That means there are laws on the books already that would have prevented this.

You then go on to assert as an example of this lack or regulatory enforcement, the MINER act which is A BRAND NEW SET OF REGULATIONS.

And you call me hopeless. You can not have it both ways McBare. What you are saying by doing that is that Bush killed the miners because he did not enforce regulations that were not on the books, when in fact it is the purview of the States to set up the mechanisms for safety as documented by the states themselves.

Now I understand. Whatever it takes...it was Bush's fault.

I just can't argue that McBare. New legislation that was not enforced as it was not law is what killed the miners. It is Bush's fault.

Your logic is definitely "Good enough for government work."

Who's John Galt.

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post #47 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:10 PM
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OK. Let me get this straight. I doubt it will help

You assert that the mine accidents happened as a direct result of the LACK OF REGULATORY ENFORCEMENT. That means there are laws on the books already that would have prevented this. YES

You then go on to assert as an example of this lack or regulatory enforcement, the MINER act which is A BRAND NEW SET OF REGULATIONS. I never said the Republicans were smart.

And you call me hopeless. You can not have it both ways McBare. What you are saying by doing that is that Bush killed the miners because he did not enforce regulations that were not on the books, when in fact it is the purview of the States to set up the mechanisms for safety as documented by the states themselves. NOPE, you might want to really read the MSHA Act and its regulations prior to making assumptions. Tonight you are about 0:20

Now I understand. Whatever it takes...it was Bush's fault. NO, It was the Lack of Enforcing Regulations on the Books. You can glean whose fault it is.

I just can't argue that McBare. New legislation that was not enforced as it was not law is what killed the miners. It is Bush's fault.

Your logic is definitely "Good enough for government work."
You apparently don't know how government works. You can have perfectly good laws and regs on the books but if you don't enforce them, and get caught with a big PR problem [mine deaths, e coli, financial meltdown] then the best way to LOOK like the government is on top of it is to MAKE NEW LAWS and REGULATIONS. It is easier than saying "WE Fucked up". Is that more clear.

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post #48 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:14 PM
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You apparently don't know how government works. You can have perfectly good laws and regs on the books but if you don't enforce them, and get caught with a big PR problem [mine deaths, e coli, financial meltdown] then the best way to LOOK like the government is on top of it is to MAKE NEW LAWS and REGULATIONS. It is easier than saying "WE Fucked up". Is that more clear.
You mean "We Fucked Up" is not one of the Republican campaign slogans? Maybe it should be, some might be impressed with the honesty.......
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post #49 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:18 PM
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You mean "We Fucked Up" is not one of the Republican campaign slogans? Maybe it should be, some might be impressed with the honesty.......
Well your view is squarely in the big centralised government viewpoint. Where in the constitution does it say that the Federal Government is responsible for the safety of Miners?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

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post #50 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:24 PM
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Well your view is squarely in the big centralised government viewpoint. Where in the constitution does it say that the Federal Government is responsible for the safety of Miners?

Well if you feel that way, then the next time you go on shift tell your foreman you think OSHA is full of shit and you will not follow the safety rules as laid out on that drill ship and see what kind of response you get, I have always had respect for a man who stands up for beliefs and principles..........
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