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Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
Keep in mind that we as a country are not equipped with our current laws to deal with an enemy such as we have now. We are too big and too advanced as it were to deal with an enemy that communicates via messenger and cut outs.
We still try to apply the Cold War mentality to the situation. We have been slowly realizing the error of this but too slowly.
For the "righteousness" and the "sewers" and such, please keep in mind that every single culture in this world has a cliche or proverb that says "never judge until you have stood in their place."
When you have stood on ground in Iraq and seen what the foreign insurgents have done to the country, when you have stood in Afghanistan and seen what the Taliban has done, then you may call us as you wish. Until then feel free to blather on but understand that those who have gone and done and sweat and bled and died for you will not ever give your words one ounce of credulity.
Those who protect this wonderful country understand what no other person who has not been in the current situation can possibly understand. That is that we have an enemy that will not ever rest until they are either destroyed, or they have won.
Now all that being said, what is an American life worth to you?
Is it acceptable to have 2 Americans die if we have one of the Taliban leaders in custody who knows where the weapons are stored? How many lives is it worth for you to feel good about the US and that we don't make people feel uncomfortable who would gladly cut off our heads on video tape?
Who's John Galt.
"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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Yes, I disagree., but I do not judge them.
I judge the former President who went into a country under false pretenses
Even if you count the magnetic energy that drew every "American hater" into Iraq, it's still our fault that they're there and trying to kill our soldiers.
Oh, yea... and why don't you ask the guys who came back. Ask them what they were there for. Ask them if it's a sensible military action. Ask them if they think we'll win. Win? What will we win? We'll be winning the responsibility to rebuild a country that we destroyed.
We created more terrorists than we killed. We're creating more and more, the longer we are there.
Look it up.
The people who are cutting our heads off are either defending their country from invaders (USA) or drawn here by our imperialistic actions.
I guess you'll say... who's counting.
My opinion is that terrorists don't inhabit a country..
They don't have a zip code.
They aren't registered.
Terrorists are men/women driven by political belief and in this case, warped religious beliefs.
They have no allegiance to a country, region, race or religion.
Just because we have the Islamic flavor doesn't mean there aren't others that target ANY country they choose.
Analogy? You burn a hornets nest.. Right? Does that mean they'll NEVER be another hornet left to sting you?
You'll never get rid of terrorists by mowing people down.
It'll be by intelligence gathering, political posturing and decisive, almost surgical attacks.
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We are a threat to America. When we become so complacent we let known subversives with intent to do us harm enter the country and live here and train to fly commercial planes for extended periods of time without real jobs, and we allow ourselves to set aside the freedoms and standards of human decency that the generations of Americans before us died to establish and uphold, we are the problem.
I am sorry you or others you know had to go to Iraq. And in my book we should have nuked or at least made inhospitable several thousand square miles around the location of the Taliban and Osamma on 9-12. We do some things very well, and when we are truly threatened we should do them. This other stuff sounds compelling, but it is not what we do well. So, don't do it. And if we are not threatened to the point of using nukes, then we should not involve the military. It is a police or possibly a CIA job.
But try to understand. Having gone to Iraq to depose Saddam is no mission of glory. Just because America's civilian government policy makers made bad policy, and the military dutifully carried out the orders, does not make the mission a noble, worthy cause. Even if Americans died in the process. It is still a blunder. And will always be a blunder. A fuck up. After there were no weapons we were treated to more duplicitous bullshit from our government - we were there to liberate and bring democracy to the Iraqis. Fuck that. If they want that let them earn it the old fashioned way. Giving it to them will ensure they place no value on it once we leave. And the authorization to invade Iraq was granted under some very specific conditions. Killing Saddam and bringing democracy to the Iraq was not in the list. Read the Resolution carefully and you will see it does not allow that as a mission.
No one should blame the military personnel for the horrible decision made by the civilian policy makers, but when you tout your experience there as some rationale for why your opinion of how much my freedoms and pride in my country are worth you stepped over the line. You were used as a tool to do some dirty work that was conceived by some unqualified politicians. You got fucked, and getting fucked doesn't make you particularly more knowledgeable or qualified to express opinions about anything, other than the actual experience of having been fucked. And when you prattle on like you can't tell you got fucked, well then your opinions on getting fucked are likely useless too.
I, and the bulk of the nation are grateful we have volunteers that answer the call, and acknowledge we owe those who serve a welcome home if they make it, and the care and assistance they need to live a decent life. Don't expect to be given some kind of leeway or respect when you begin to describe behavior you want the rest of us to accept based on your personal experience being fucked by our government. What you did or are in the process of defending that others you know did, is an unacceptable step in the wrong direction for this nation. If you don't see it, you should consider shutting the fuck up - you sound like a child molester trying justify fucking infants because it is accepted in some other culture you visited. The prospect is revolting. And it is un-American. Read a bit of our history. When we find we are doing something evil and inhuman, we stop. This is an attempt to ignore our historical record and change the course of the American experiment. Do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.
I'll repeat myself - if the country is threatened, you do all you can to overcome the threat. In my mind that means you go to war and you execute a strategy that is most likely to result in America being intact and the other guy vanquished. That is not what we did. First, there was no threat from Iraq, ever. Saddam was a jerk, but he never threatened America. And, who the fuck cares about bullshit UN resolutions that the UN doesn't even care about? Then, once we completely fucked up and sent all of their military personnel packing with no prospects for employment, and removed every civil servant who had been running some civil service group, like the guys supplying water, electricity, etc based on their religion, the country fell apart and a civil war started. We invited all manner of scum into the country to take shots at us, and real urban combat started. We tried to fight their style war - when in our own fight for freedom we beat a much more well equipped and larger force by using tactics that made their tactics ineffective enough to give us the advantage. Bad decision to send anyone to Iraq and no planning (what was the rush anyway - couldn't we have invaded after a plan had been drawn up and tested by some of our "think tanks" before we invaded?) and a bad strategy to boot.
The Taliban was harboring Osamma and his henchmen. They should have been given a single chance to save their souls and then suffered a hideous, possibly nuclear firestorm, but in any case certain death from weapons launched from sea, land and air that could do the job. We have killed many more people in the Middle East since 9-11 than would have died in an all out attack on Osamma and the Taliban on 9-12. I see nothing particularly satisfying, gratifying or humane about having killed all those people over 6 years instead of a fraction of the number of lives we have taken in the last 6 years - but the fraction would have included those who planned the 9-11 attacks and those who supported and harbored them - in 6 milliseconds.
And no American life is worth the heart and soul of our nation. Many have and would give their lives to keep the American experiment thriving - it is something Americans have been doing for more than two hundred years.
Last edited by JimSmith; 04-18-2009 at 12:04 AM.
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You tell Churchill that Iraqis don't sleep at night, thanks to the mess your brave men created in Iraq. You tell him more than a million Iraqi child lost their lives thanks to the sanctions and the war that followed. Be brave enough to tell him that despite the fact that the entirety of Iraq posed no remote threat to the US, the then POTUS decided he had enough reasons and intelligence to invade and destroy Iraq. You won't get a quote from the dead man but any living human with a trace of commonsense will tell you the rough, brave men of yours fought the wrong war for all the wrong reasons and caused a multiple of wrongs that'll take long years to set straight.
yep, but In the butt, Bob (aka TNT) want's people to pat it and tell it 'he's a good boy', it has very limited and simple intellect...
beware of fundamentalists
Last edited by 420 SE; 04-18-2009 at 04:14 AM.
BenzWorld Senior Member
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