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post #21 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 02:25 PM
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How can you argue with someone if they have Grand Mufti in their title?
What are you, the Grand Inquisitor?
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post #22 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 02:31 PM
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Wow! I missed this thread
It's a masterpiece of collage
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post #23 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 04:27 PM
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Wow! I missed this thread
It's a masterpiece of collage
You weren't around and everyone...well, some people...ok, ok... Shane was missing you so I tried to buck him up. I'm glad you liked it and recognized its origins.

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post #24 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 04:30 PM
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That's an admirable stance, were it not for the willingness of some segments of the Muslim population to export that "culture" and force their mores upon others...


Shariah in Minnesota?
Radical Muslim activists go fishing in troubled waters.

by KATHERINE KERSTEN
Sunday, March 25, 2007 12:01 A.M. EDT

MINNEAPOLIS--The land of 10,000 lakes and that welcoming attitude we call "Minnesota Nice"--is becoming a window on America's potential future. Here in Minneapolis, one of the nation's most livable cities, hard-line Muslim activists are injecting an element that is anything but nice.

Troubling incidents began several years ago, when taxi drivers at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport--about three-quarters of whom are Muslim--started refusing to transport passengers carrying alcohol. One woman, returning from France with wine, was turned away by five cabs in succession. Refusals of service now number about 100 a month, and heated altercations have erupted.

In September 2006, the Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC) proposed a two color top-light pilot project to indicate which drivers would accept passengers with alcohol. The proposal, later dropped, would apparently have marked the first time that a government agency in the U.S. officially recognized Shariah law, and distinguished individuals who follow it from those who don't.

In November 2006, the six "flying imams" bumped the taxi drivers from the headlines. In Minneapolis for a conference, the imams were detained after engaging in what an airport police report called "suspicious" activity. Some prayed loudly in the gate area, spoke angrily about the U.S. and Saddam, switched seats and unnecessarily requested seat belt extenders with heavy buckles that could be used as weapons, according to witnesses. They were questioned and released later that day. The imams denounced the incident as racial and religious profiling. "If up to now, [Americans] don't know about prayers, this is a real problem," said Omar Shahin, one of the detained men and head of the North American Imams Federation. Twin Cities imams demanded a separate Muslim prayer room at the airport.

Earlier this month, the six imams filed suit in U.S. district court in Minneapolis against US Airways and the Metropolitan Airports Commission, claiming discrimination and defamation. Now some Muslim cashiers at Twin Cities Target stores have begun refusing to scan pork products, like bacon and pepperoni pizza, and insisting that other cashiers or the customers themselves do it.

What's going on? It appears that both local circumstances and activists with a big-picture agenda play a role. Take the taxi drivers. Minnesota is home to tens of thousands of Somalis, most recent immigrants. Behind the scenes, moderate local Somali leaders are engaged in a power struggle with national Muslim organizations that seek to exploit this vulnerable population. Islam prohibits the consumption of alcohol but not its transportation, say Somalis who reject the taxi drivers' stance. Yet in June 2006, the Muslim American Society's (MAS) Minnesota chapter issued a "fatwa" forbidding drivers here from carrying alcohol to avoid "cooperating in sin."

Hassan Mohamud, one of the fatwa signers, praised the two top-light proposal as a national model for accommodating Islam in areas ranging from housing to the workplace. But according to Omar Jamal of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center in St. Paul, MAS is "trying to hijack and radicalize the Somali community for their Middle East agenda."

Ahmed Samatar, a recognized expert on Somali society at Macalester College in St. Paul notes that "There is a general Islamic prohibition against drinking, but carrying alcohol for people in commercial enterprise has never been forbidden." Similarly, Islam prohibits consuming pork, but not touching or scanning it, according to Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the American Society for Muslim Advancement in New York. It is, or should be, "a nonissue."

In Washington, the Democratic leadership is likely to seek passage of the End Racial Profiling Act, of which House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called herself, in 2004, a "proud" cosponsor. Both MAS and CAIR are stumping for the bill, which would bar airport security personnel from disproportionately questioning Muslims or people of Middle Eastern descent. Minnesota's Keith Ellison, the nation's first Muslim Congressman, told me that the imams' situation reflects a misunderstanding of Muslim prayer and will be sorted out in court, while the other matters stem from the normal process of immigrant adjustment.

The events here suggest a larger strategy: By piggy-backing on our civil rights laws, Islamist activists aim to equate airport security with racial bigotry and to move slowly toward a two-tier legal system. Intimidation is a crucial tool. The "flying imams" lawsuit ups the ante by indicating that passengers who alerted airport authorities will be included as defendants. Activists are also perfecting their skills at manipulating the media. After a "pray-in" at Reagan National Airport in Washington, D.C., one credulous MSNBC anchor likened the flying imams to civil rights icon Rosa Parks.

The comparison is misplaced: Omar Shahin, leader of the detained imams, has helped raise money for at least two charities later shut down for supporting terrorism. From 2000 to 2003, he headed the Islamic Center of Tucson, which terrorism expert Rita Katz described in the Washington Post as holding "basically the first cell of al Qaeda in the United States." CAIR has long been controversial for alleged terrorist ties, while the Chicago Tribune has described MAS as the American arm of the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood, which "preaches that religion and politics cannot be separated and that governments eventually should be Islamic."

So far, Minnesotans have said a resolute "no" to Muslim activists' agenda; in an informal Star Tribune poll, 92% of respondents blamed the imams' own behavior for their airport detention. And Target--after unsuccessful attempts to accommodate Muslim cashiers--is reassigning them to other jobs. Still, there is a sense that we've seen just the opening skirmishes. As MAC spokesman Patrick Hogan put it, "I think people are afraid there will be a chapter two."

Ms. Kersten is a columnist for the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

Minnesota is our land, they must abide by our rules and cultural norms. They have a right to try to change ours to help indoctrinate theirs. Good luck on that one, chief.
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post #25 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 04:31 PM
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This thread is predicated on the same vitriol and flawed logic as the other one that targeted Tahloube. WTF?
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post #26 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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We would never do that, and that is why we're morally superior: Blowback: the costs and consequences ... - Google Book Search
Maybe this is why we've lost our capacity for outrage - it's become such a taboo to point out an atrocity when you see it, because when you do, some fucking asshole is going to come up with reasons why you're a hypocrite for saying anything about it at all.

So rather than face tough problems and be adults and stand up for simple little things like human rights and decency by at least condemning them publicly, we cower away and shrivel at the first hint of inbound scrutiny.

Well, fuck that. Problems are problems. Mistakes are mistakes. Doesn't matter who made them, doesn't matter who's pointing them out, doesn't matter what someone else did before that may have received a pass. Wrong is wrong. If we can't even have those discussions anymore, we - as a race - are doomed.


All of this is only slightly less interesting to me than the utter blindness afforded Tahloube's history of commentary here. The defense of this 'poor soul' is proof that BWOT has suddenly become the internet's richest bastion of anti-Semitism.
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post #27 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 05:13 PM
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The Scorpion and the Frog

One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.

The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.

Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

Self destruction - "Its my Nature", said the Scorpion...
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post #28 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 05:16 PM
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Maybe this is why we've lost our capacity for outrage - it's become such a taboo to point out an atrocity when you see it, because when you do, some fucking asshole is going to come up with reasons why you're a hypocrite for saying anything about it at all.

So rather than face tough problems and be adults and stand up for simple little things like human rights and decency by at least condemning them publicly, we cower away and shrivel at the first hint of inbound scrutiny.

Well, fuck that. Problems are problems. Mistakes are mistakes. Doesn't matter who made them, doesn't matter who's pointing them out, doesn't matter what someone else did before that may have received a pass. Wrong is wrong. If we can't even have those discussions anymore, we - as a race - are doomed.


All of this is only slightly less interesting to me than the utter blindness afforded Tahloube's history of commentary here. The defense of this 'poor soul' is proof that BWOT has suddenly become the internet's richest bastion of anti-Semitism.
There is an important message there that shouldn't be overlooked or swept under the carpet, and it applies to Dave's rather cavalier suggestion that the Islamic world is exporting their culture here. If you haven't read how we exported our culture to the Philippines in the link I posted, it's worth a look -- but only if you have a strong stomach. That stuff might seem like good clean fun to a good old boy from the Midwest, but other cultures have a different perspective altogether.

The bottom line is that we should at least clean up our own backyard while pointing fingers at others for doing less of the same. Or so it seems to me.

Frankly, the only person here trying to shout anyone down is you. On one hand, you're shouting me down for joining the discussion by pointing out some small hypocrisy, while on the other, you're trying to play Tahloube as your personal marionette, who has now become accountable to you for all manner of things beyond her control, and even her experience.

Then you declare "If we can't even have those discussions anymore, we - as a race - are doomed". What's your favorite saying again? Oh, yeah. "I don't get it."

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #29 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 06:35 PM
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She's been defending Saudis and Muslims unapologetically for quite some time, simultaneously throwing Jews and Christians under the bus at every opportunity. She has a habit of assigning blame for all the ills facing Muslims on everyone else on the planet, steadfastly refusing to address any of the self-inflicted wounds this religion of barbarism causes itself. I find the hypocrisy remarkable, and I think these questions are fair given her prior comments on other topics.

That said, I don't expect much of a response. We already have our answers.
"Designo_E320" says "When you have FIXED your society and have rid it of all evils then you may point fingers. Frankly, the atrocities we face with here in America (a lot underground and a lot is not) trumps even this case no matter how vile it may be. Let THEM worry about THEIR society. You act like you really care about them."
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post #30 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 07:00 PM
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That's an admirable stance, were it not for the willingness of some segments of the Muslim population to export that "culture" and force their mores upon others...


Shariah in Minnesota?
Radical Muslim activists go fishing in troubled waters.

by KATHERINE KERSTEN
Sunday, March 25, 2007 12:01 A.M. EDT

MINNEAPOLIS--The land of 10,000 lakes and that welcoming attitude we call "Minnesota Nice"--is becoming a window on America's potential future. Here in Minneapolis, one of the nation's most livable cities, hard-line Muslim activists are injecting an element that is anything but nice.

Troubling incidents began several years ago, when taxi drivers at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport--about three-quarters of whom are Muslim--started refusing to transport passengers carrying alcohol. One woman, returning from France with wine, was turned away by five cabs in succession. Refusals of service now number about 100 a month, and heated altercations have erupted.
How is this different then Bush passing legislation in his last days in which health care workers could refuse giving out info or to treat if it was against their beliefs such as not giving info on contraception or pharmacists not providing/filling prescriptions for contraceptive pills.

In November 2006, the six "flying imams" bumped the taxi drivers from the headlines. In Minneapolis for a conference, the imams were detained after engaging in what an airport police report called "suspicious" activity. Some prayed loudly in the gate area, spoke angrily about the U.S. and Saddam,(When in Rome, do as the Romans do. BTW FREEDOM OF SPEECH) switched seats and unnecessarily requested seat belt extenders with heavy buckles that could be used as weapons, (OMG!)according to witnesses (Like some one this forum? ). They were questioned and released later that day. The imams denounced the incident as racial and religious profiling. "If up to now, [Americans] don't know about prayers, this is a real problem," said Omar Shahin, one of the detained men and head of the North American Imams Federation. Twin Cities imams demanded a separate Muslim prayer room at the airport.(And rightfully so. There are prayers which have to be performed in a group and MUST be said aloud. So if BIGOTS have a problem then to protect these people they should be allowed to have a seperate prayer room.)

Earlier this month, the six imams filed suit in U.S. district court in Minneapolis against US Airways and the Metropolitan Airports Commission, claiming discrimination and defamation. Now some Muslim cashiers at Twin Cities Target stores have begun refusing to scan pork products, like bacon and pepperoni pizza, and insisting that other cashiers or the customers themselves do it. (Staten Island University Hospital observes "SHOMER SHABBOS" for the Jewish employees. This kinda suck for the training residents who work an average of 80 hours/ week and then have to pick up the slack for the Jews as well there but they do! It is NOT a Jewish institution! http://www.siuh.edu/resident/internal%20medicine/questions.htm )


Hassan Mohamud, one of the fatwa signers, praised the two top-light proposal as a national model for accommodating Islam in areas ranging from housing to the workplace. But according to Omar Jamal of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center in St. Paul, MAS is "trying to hijack and radicalize the Somali community for their Middle East agenda."


The events here suggest a larger strategy: By piggy-backing on our civil rights laws, Islamist activists aim to equate airport security with racial bigotry and to move slowly toward a two-tier legal system. Intimidation is a crucial tool. The "flying imams" lawsuit ups the ante by indicating that passengers who alerted airport authorities will be included as defendants. Activists are also perfecting their skills at manipulating the media. After a "pray-in" at Reagan National Airport in Washington, D.C., one credulous MSNBC anchor likened the flying imams to civil rights icon Rosa Parks.(Written by a 1000$ PURE-BREED BIGOT! Nowhere do they mention RAPING of the resources of the Muslim countries.)


Ms. Kersten is a columnist for the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

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