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post #51 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
Glad you mentioned the wiretaps. I understand that official Obama admin policy is to continue the program as devised by past administration as essential to national security. Don't you just hate when that happens?

There is no information about whe drew the conclusions, nevertheless it was current admin that released it. But it is just an attempt to distract from TEA day.
I believe you need to dig a bit deeper into the new wiretap policy. It has changed fundamentally. And I like it when that happens.

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post #52 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R. View Post
Unlike many of the leftists among us, most law enforcement people don't like the idea of having to watch people because they have a unique bumper sticker or supported Ron Paul. If you read or heard about some of the portions of this 'report' that kind of individual was specifically singled out.

I don't have to suggest anything, it seems these 9 pages spell it out fairly clearly.
Actually I both read and posted up the complete report for viewing so it would be clear.

I don't recall you, or any of the other folks bitching when Department of Homeland Security was focusing on getting LEO to watch people because they have unique bumper stickers or support alternative views as long as they were not goring YOUR ox.

Now that there is a growing fringe element of the Rightwing that has drawn attention of Department of Homeland Security and LEO suddenly the kids on the Right are whining like a bunch of little school girls with their panties in a wad that it just isn't right. YOU folks created the DHS. YOU folks set the bar. YOU folks defined the paranoia and YOU folks established the fear. Now that the big LEO Maglite has it's beam in YOUR face everyone starts whining and crying and complaining that it is wrong. As usual, very late to the dance. As usual Bushie's kids established a bureaucracy without consideration of the unintended consequences.

We tried to warn folks that DHS was a monster that needed reigned in before it even started. We tried to warn folks that their First Amendment rights were valuable but, because it was not Rightwing First Amendment rights being abridged all you guys kept saying "Just what rights have you lost?".

Much like deficit spending, apparently this is only important to you when you no longer are in a majority to do anything to stop it.

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post #53 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 11:53 PM
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First thing they should do is to can Glenn Beck's show immediately. Freedom of speech is one thing, but this asshole is openly inviting "an armed rebellion against the government"!!!!!! And he has plenty of crazy followers, as we have seen in the case of Pennsylvania shooting recently where three police officers were gunned down by a right wing nut, no doubt inspired by dopes like Glenn Beck and some others.

Imagine what would have happened if someone on a major news network invited the country to an open armed rebellion against the government of G.W. Bush!
Wow. Do you actually believe what you write?

Please show us where he has called for an armed rebellion against the government.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #54 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 12:06 AM
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Here is the actual report.

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

I have to say that on balance and taken in context it seems straight forward. The message being "Hey, the skin heads and Klansmen are recruiting more people because the President is black. And by the way, proposed restriction on guns and stuff will likely fuel this even more."

Ok first off...duh!

Does not take a rocket scientist to understand that the Skinheads and Klansmen are going apeshit. The issue is, and what is conveniently left out, how many more members are these hate groups actually pulling in?

Of course it also does not help that the DHS is defining people as extremists who believe in strong states' rights, are anti-abortion, and anti-illegal immigration.

The report is obviously written by some pinhead bureaucrats who haven't been on the street and want to make sure that in the highly unlike event that a timothy Mcveigh comes out of the woodwork, they have something to wave at the Congressional Investigating Committee and say "see! I told you so!"

Basically a blown out of proportion way of CYA.

However, I just love how all the LWNJ's here come out of the woodwork and talk about how the RWNJ's are going to overthrow the government so they are going to arm themselves to the teeth.

Kind of like a microcosm of how the Cold War was fought. Interesting when you take into account the psychological aspects of projection and how the media plays up the "DREAD, FEAR, SCARE" aspects.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #55 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Here is the actual report.

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

I have to say that on balance and taken in context it seems straight forward. The message being "Hey, the skin heads and Klansmen are recruiting more people because the President is black. And by the way, proposed restriction on guns and stuff will likely fuel this even more."

Ok first off...duh!

Does not take a rocket scientist to understand that the Skinheads and Klansmen are going apeshit. The issue is, and what is conveniently left out, how many more members are these hate groups actually pulling in?

Of course it also does not help that the DHS is defining people as extremists who believe in strong states' rights, are anti-abortion, and anti-illegal immigration.

The report is obviously written by some pinhead bureaucrats who haven't been on the street and want to make sure that in the highly unlike event that a timothy Mcveigh comes out of the woodwork, they have something to wave at the Congressional Investigating Committee and say "see! I told you so!"

Basically a blown out of proportion way of CYA.

However, I just love how all the LWNJ's here come out of the woodwork and talk about how the RWNJ's are going to overthrow the government so they are going to arm themselves to the teeth.

Kind of like a microcosm of how the Cold War was fought. Interesting when you take into account the psychological aspects of projection and how the media plays up the "DREAD, FEAR, SCARE" aspects.
If you had actually read the thread instead of skimming you would know that the link to the original document has already been posted back on Tuesday night. Your conclusion that the report was written by a pinhead is based on what? Remember, the ENTIRETY of DHS was hired by Bush people. That department has had ZERO hiring in the new Administration.

Now, look at all the hate and venom that is being spewed by the right. On a previous post you asked "show us where he called for an armed rebellion". That would be on one of the shows where Beck had Chuck Norris as a guest. Here is Norris' take on it. I may run for president of Texas

Though I am sure you will try and rationalize that those comments have nothing to do with "armed" rebellion and are fully intended to be democratic discourse.

Which brings us to today's TAX Rebellion. It was a very good display of concern about deficit spending and taxation.

So what were these doing among the tax issues? Do rightwing protesters just have a hard time focusing and keeping on point?

McBear,
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post #56 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Actually I both read and posted up the complete report for viewing so it would be clear.

I don't recall you, or any of the other folks bitching when Department of Homeland Security was focusing on getting LEO to watch people because they have unique bumper stickers or support alternative views as long as they were not goring YOUR ox.
Your right because I thought it was not a problem. Now your side does it and you have no complaints....... That smacks of hipocracy on your part as well as mine.
However, my complaint is that returning veterans are mentioned specifically, and as a vet, I have a problem with that.
One would think that since you also are a veteran, that you would also find something disturbing in that attitude. After all these guys put their lives on the line for this country, and now the government (who trained them) want's them watched because they can't be trusted......

I might add that it doesn't matter who hired the guys that wrote thr report, Obama is standing behind it, and he certainly hasn't stated he doesn't agree with any of the wording has he.....

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
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post #57 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R. View Post
Your right because I thought it was not a problem. Now your side does it and you have no complaints....... That smacks of hipocracy on your part as well as mine.
However, my complaint is that returning veterans are mentioned specifically, and as a vet, I have a problem with that.
One would think that since you also are a veteran, that you would also find something disturbing in that attitude. After all these guys put their lives on the line for this country, and now the government (who trained them) want's them watched because they can't be trusted......

I might add that it doesn't matter who hired the guys that wrote thr report, Obama is standing behind it, and he certainly hasn't stated he doesn't agree with any of the wording has he.....
Read the report. It says returning military personnel are being targeted for recruitment because their training is of value to right wing groups. It also cites the rationale for being wary of such recruitment activities as past experience. Like McVey - a veteran and terrorist. So to just ignore the potential of right wing groups seeking out veterans, or for veterans to commit acts of terror against the United States merely because they are veterans is naive at best and likely just plain irresponsible. Facts are facts and the military experience of veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan is clearly of value of right wing groups who might be planning terror attacks, just like it is possible the military system could produce another McVey - a veteran but also the terrorist who killed the most Americans with a single terror act before 9-11-2001.

I am a bit in awe of a document marked "FOUO" that is not classified but clearly under a distribution restriction order appearing all over the internet. I wonder if that is now considered an official use of sensitive but unclassified documents?

Something like that in my prior career with a "NOFORN" distribution restriction would have you searching for a new job. FOUO was the non-nuclear "equivalent" but the rules there are apparently not followed.

Jim
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post #58 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 07:38 AM
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Read the report. It says returning military personnel are being targeted for recruitment because their training is of value to right wing groups. It also cites the rationale for being wary of such recruitment activities as past experience. Like McVey - a veteran and terrorist. So to just ignore the potential of right wing groups seeking out veterans, or for veterans to commit acts of terror against the United States merely because they are veterans is naive at best and likely just plain irresponsible. Facts are facts and the military experience of veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan is clearly of value of right wing groups who might be planning terror attacks, just like it is possible the military system could produce another McVey - a veteran but also the terrorist who killed the most Americans with a single terror act before 9-11-2001.

I am a bit in awe of a document marked "FOUO" that is not classified but clearly under a distribution restriction order appearing all over the internet. I wonder if that is now considered an official use of sensitive but unclassified documents?

Something like that in my prior career with a "NOFORN" distribution restriction would have you searching for a new job. FOUO was the non-nuclear "equivalent" but the rules there are apparently not followed.

Jim
You like to target McVey, but the military doesn't have a corner on the terrorist market. It seems to me that an acquaintance or two of Obama might fit into the picture as well, do names like Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn ring a bell?
They may not have killed as many as McVey, but it wasn't because they weren't trying, but rather because they didn't have the opportunity. They have said as much.
I guess because these are left wingers, their wrong doing doesn't carry the weight it did in the past?

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
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post #59 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 08:27 AM
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You bring up ancient history. We bring up the fact that we have right wing talking heads formenting violence, and now we have a Texas governor preaching secession, something my great-grandfather would have gladly shot him in the head for, along with the rest of the state of New Hampshire for the last 150 years or so. You right wingers are trying to destablize the US. I think it is time everyone sees that you clowns want to treat this country like a banana republic, that legal elections mean nothing to you people, and apparently to the governor of Texas, neither does the US Constitution. Use Ayers for a strawman all you want, what people are seeing is current reality, you nuts have stacks of guns that dwarf anything any hippie radicals ever had, huge amounts of military bomb-making know how, and you may try to take over the US by force - your own leader Beck has said exactly that, in a country where you have at best, 22% support at this point, that is going to attempt to rule the other 88% of us at gunpoint. We need to keep an eye on you nuts. Southern battle flags represent treason, it amazes me you fanatics bitch when Mexicans wave their own flag, yet you all cheer when the flag of a proto-fascist slave nation that attempted to destroy the USA is one of the main features of your political rallies. Secession, treason, calls for armed responses to a legal election, and you think the DHS is out of line? My ass.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #60 of 163 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
If you had actually read the thread instead of skimming you would know that the link to the original document has already been posted back on Tuesday night. Your conclusion that the report was written by a pinhead is based on what? Remember, the ENTIRETY of DHS was hired by Bush people. That department has had ZERO hiring in the new Administration.

Now, look at all the hate and venom that is being spewed by the right. On a previous post you asked "show us where he called for an armed rebellion". That would be on one of the shows where Beck had Chuck Norris as a guest. Here is Norris' take on it. I may run for president of Texas

Though I am sure you will try and rationalize that those comments have nothing to do with "armed" rebellion and are fully intended to be democratic discourse.

Which brings us to today's TAX Rebellion. It was a very good display of concern about deficit spending and taxation.

So what were these doing among the tax issues? Do rightwing protesters just have a hard time focusing and keeping on point?
So now Bush Hired Competent people and the report is breaking new ground with its earth shattering revelations?

McBare how transparent of you. To bash Bush when it suits you and hold him up as effective and competent when it suits your agenda as well.

Well tell us, which is it because you can not have it both ways.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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