WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACK RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 07:55 PM
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At the risk of being repititious, not in the least.
We started expanding government right about the Civil War. Considering States Rights was the primary element of the war, that would have been a pretty good starting point, though most would push the starting date back to 1832 when South Carolina started whining about tariffs and issued its Nullification Ordinance.

So, when Perry evokes States Rights, and going back to basics, basics are over 180 years old. New Deal is just a new kid on the block in comparison.

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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:18 PM
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Nah, the New Deal ushered in the "I'm from the federal government, and I'm here to take care of you" era. It was an unprecedented escalation. Now, here we are. I said I hope the governor has begun a debate that continues and grows. Hope Rush doesn't spoil it.

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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:23 PM
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I agree in part with both ed and mcbear. The message is sound, the timing and circumstance is not. Take away the timing and circumstance, and we're left with a truth of overwhelming central government and diminishing states rights that should be addressed and course-corrected by all state governments. But given the source and timing, what I mostly hear is "now that Bush lost, I wanna take my ball and go home". Unfortunately, it just plays as more cry-baby bullsh*t.

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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:28 PM
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Nah, the New Deal ushered in the "I'm from the federal government, and I'm here to take care of you" era. It was an unprecedented escalation. Now, here we are. I said I hope the governor has begun a debate that continues and grows. Hope Rush doesn't spoil it.
I was at a shop this evening and Hannity was on WLS Chicago. I believe it is already spoiled from the sound of it. Between Rush, Hannity and Beck, they are betting THEIR future on this thing. I doubt they really care about the fundamentals. of the concept. I doubt they could actually articulate the fundamentals of the true concept.

And I understand the New Deal hook, that argument makes good sense. That did usher in the "let me help you" era, as opposed to "we're going to tell you states what you can and can't do" era of the 1830-1860s. Two completely different government plays really. Once directed toward people and one directed toward states.

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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:33 PM
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Perry's not saying we need to secede, he's saying that the states are getting squashed by the feds, and that the states ought to stand up for their rights. Good for Perry - he's right; the fed's expansion is taking the state's rights away and it's taking the individual's rights away. You people who don't see that need to pay more attention - perhaps read a history book or two.

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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:34 PM
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I agree in part with both ed and mcbear. The message is sound, the timing and circumstance is not. Take away the timing and circumstance, and we're left with a truth of overwhelming central government and diminishing states rights that should be addressed and course-corrected by all state governments. But given the source and timing, what I mostly hear is "now that Bush lost, I wanna take my ball and go home". Unfortunately, it just plays as more cry-baby bullsh*t.
If somebody could be very bold and make a 20-30 year plan to move this country back toward a more limited government, with a very true conservative philosophy that didn't clutter itself up with social conservatism and deficit spending I think folks would start to listen. The problem has been that, when tried in the past it has been from either an independent source that fully lacked any infrastructure backing or came from a tangent of the Republican Party that was beholding to the Social Conservatives.

If someone had the guts to tell the Social Conservatives to go back and play in their churches and keep their noses out of folks business I think many of the center left moderates would give that philosophy serious consideration.

There are a tremendous number of Fiscal Conservatives in the middle Left who will NEVER vote Republican due to the Social Conservatives.

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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by POS View Post
Perry's not saying we need to secede, he's saying that the states are getting squashed by the feds, and that the states ought to stand up for their rights. Good for Perry - he's right; the fed's expansion is taking the state's rights away and it's taking the individual's rights away. You people who don't see that need to pay more attention - perhaps read a history book or two.
Better for Perry had this declaration come a year ago.

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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
I agree in part with both ed and mcbear. The message is sound, the timing and circumstance is not. Take away the timing and circumstance, and we're left with a truth of overwhelming central government and diminishing states rights that should be addressed and course-corrected by all state governments. But given the source and timing, what I mostly hear is "now that Bush lost, I wanna take my ball and go home". Unfortunately, it just plays as more cry-baby bullsh*t.
C'mon, take a stand. You're either for me or against me. Oops (where have I heard that before?)
My somewhat delusional hope is that our neocon faction and party will embrace a conservative, constitutional approach to government. That will require a realization that GW wasn't conservative. I did use the word delusional.

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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:41 PM
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The 14th Amendment was the beginning of the end to "states rights", which died of theory.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
If somebody could be very bold and make a 20-30 year plan to move this country back toward a more limited government, with a very true conservative philosophy that didn't clutter itself up with social conservatism and deficit spending I think folks would start to listen. The problem has been that, when tried in the past it has been from either an independent source that fully lacked any infrastructure backing or came from a tangent of the Republican Party that was beholding to the Social Conservatives.

If someone had the guts to tell the Social Conservatives to go back and play in their churches and keep their noses out of folks business I think many of the center left moderates would give that philosophy serious consideration.

There are a tremendous number of Fiscal Conservatives in the middle Left who will NEVER vote Republican due to the Social Conservatives.
I'm counting on you to lay out that plan. I'll got for it when you do. Start with budgeting 101, the gazoutta must match the gazinta.

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