Obama Maintains Control Over Banks By Refusing To Accept Repayment Of TARP Money... - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:09 PM
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Yes, that is the label put on it. Tinkering with institutions that are solvent and successful, though . . . .
But shouldn't the shareholders be protected from this looting? We need some sort of regulatory framework, the lack of which is what got us here.

As far as the government being part of the management in companies they bailed out, that's fine with me, it gives those not subject reason to not want it.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:43 PM
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Dad gummit. I searched for a posting like this before I posted! Anyway, moderators please combine the threads if you would please.

Who's John Galt.

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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 06:04 PM
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That is too cheap and superficial for you.

Wall Street's utter failure to actually audit and report accurately on corporations selling stock through the Wall Street stock exchanges has led to the perverse motivation of corporate executives to take care of themselves and their collaborators in the Wall Street investment banker/audit houses at the expense of the other investors and the employees of the corporations. It is precisely this improper motivation that has to be regulated. To fail to do so is to ignore the cause of the present, and if left unchecked, future problem.

When the way to quick riches is to compromise the long term integrity and survivability of a company in favor of short term gains - short term gains that drive the stock prices up as part of a more commonplace scam, but one less honorable than the headline grabbing Ponzi schemes of late, that is used to "justify" executive compensation packages and golden parachutes that are not tied to long term viability of the company - there is a problem. Selling the future of the company's viability for the ability to project momentary strength to attract investors is a form of stealing when the intent is to cash in your options and take that golden parachute before the shit hits the fan in the next quarter.

To make this clearer, if a company's stock market evaluation is not directly tied to the "old fashioned" metrics of value added in the market place where it sells its products, things like market share and strategies to grow market share as well as profits from making the widgets they sell, the valuation of the stock is suspect. When the only innovation in the product development organization for the last several decades is cost reduction, achieved by outsourcing to lower labor cost manufacturing zones in the world, there is no actual product development underway. In fact, it is no longer an innovation to manufacture where manufacturing labor costs are negligible. In fact, if that has been the sum total of innovation for the last several decades, there is likely a lack of properly trained mechanics and engineers to actually make significant, and relevant, technical innovations. How that can lead to higher stock prices is beyond me. This shit has to be fixed. If Wall Street's auditing agencies, and investment advisors are unable to put the facts down on paper or advise clients honestly due to conflicts of interest, there is a serious problem. Merely letting the guilty avoid being held up to a bright light of public scrutiny because they gave the money back is short sighted and a very clear sign the added scrutiny is even more unacceptable than risking letting the company go under. A sure sign that the scrutiny is needed.

Jim
Well, I wasn't attempting to be superficial at all. I agree completely there must be rules that prevent cooking the books and other forms of cheating, that impartial referee thing I've said before. But you don't start with a rule on what people are paid. People and banks who play by the rules are allowed to win and be rewarded for it without intervention.

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
But shouldn't the shareholders be protected from this looting? We need some sort of regulatory framework, the lack of which is what got us here.

As far as the government being part of the management in companies they bailed out, that's fine with me, it gives those not subject reason to not want it.
I think I agree with that. Is it 9:30 already?


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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 06:30 PM
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I think I agree with that. Is it 9:30 already?
If you agree with me, no matter what time it is, it may be too late for you.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 06:46 PM
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If you agree with me, no matter what time it is, it may be too late for you.
I think you said, in effect, there should be rules against cheating that are enforced, and you didn't say there should be rules against winning. If that is what you meant, then I'll accept the penalty for agreeing with you.

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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
I think you said, in effect, there should be rules against cheating that are enforced, and you didn't say there should be rules against winning. If that is what you meant, then I'll accept the penalty for agreeing with you.
Perhaps some way acceptable to both sides of the isle could be something like the tax regulation on donations. Policy makers' and administrators' compensation could be tied to performance in the same manner as a Rep's is: A basic wage (very basic), the fringes, and a bonus tied to performance and the balance sheet. To maintain the free enterprise system, any deviation from the limits could be taxed to the Corporation and the Recipient at a 90% rate for each (The enacting law should be drawn in a Supreme Court proof manner.)

Now who ties the bell to the cat's tail?

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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 07:25 PM
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Regarding the banks paying back TARP money, I believe the issue is credibility of the institutions and their ability to gain waivers from the three major regulators [remember them] - the Federal Reserve, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Federal Insurance Deposit Corporation.

Only banks deemed “well-capitalized” are expected to receive waivers. Regulators are still scrutinizing the balance sheets of the biggest banks as part of a comprehensive stress test to determine whether they need more capital. Regulators are unlikely to make such decisions until the test is complete.

Once these stress tests are done, and waivers are granted to those who pass, banks will be able to pay back the money. That way there is more of an assurance that there will not be a need to come back again if they rushed things in order to make it look like they were more solid than they actually are.

We don't need a second crash, triggered by Boards rushing to prove they were best at bouncing back when in reality they were not.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 10:23 PM
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Perhaps some way acceptable to both sides of the isle could be something like the tax regulation on donations. Policy makers' and administrators' compensation could be tied to performance in the same manner as a Rep's is: A basic wage (very basic), the fringes, and a bonus tied to performance and the balance sheet. To maintain the free enterprise system, any deviation from the limits could be taxed to the Corporation and the Recipient at a 90% rate for each (The enacting law should be drawn in a Supreme Court proof manner.)
You fell into the liberal trap with this post. In order to do what you are proposing, you accept the proposition that government can legally be involved in setting salaries, benefits and bonuses for private businesses.

We should all have one reflex when a liberal asks us for "our solution" to the problem--run the opposite direction, fast. When a lib defines the problem, proposes a liberal solution, then asks what alternative a conservative has, we are just playing on their field with their ball as we fall all over ourselves to show how smart we are at devising answers to, remember what? THEIR problem.

This AIG bonus stuff is pure BS, or better, populist BS. The total bonus for the AIG financial services section was $165 million. This week Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac announced RETENTION bonuses of over $200 million without any outrage from Congress, unions, or even Acorn. Why not? Because the government runs them, that's why. Do you sense a double standard here? The other reason is both contribute heavily to Dodd, Frank and Obama.

The best conservative strategy currently is to hoist the libs by their own pitard; let them swing alone with their new policies.

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 10:33 PM
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Regarding the banks paying back TARP money, I believe the issue is credibility of the institutions and their ability to gain waivers from the three major regulators [remember them] - the Federal Reserve, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Federal Insurance Deposit Corporation.

Only banks deemed “well-capitalized” are expected to receive waivers. Regulators are still scrutinizing the balance sheets of the biggest banks as part of a comprehensive stress test to determine whether they need more capital. Regulators are unlikely to make such decisions until the test is complete.

Once these stress tests are done, and waivers are granted to those who pass, banks will be able to pay back the money. That way there is more of an assurance that there will not be a need to come back again if they rushed things in order to make it look like they were more solid than they actually are.

We don't need a second crash, triggered by Boards rushing to prove they were best at bouncing back when in reality they were not.

Apparently, you missed the memo. ObGitBern has promised none of the top banks will be allowed to "fail" the "stress test" by virtue of their size. Smaller banks though are out of luck unless there is a senator in their backyard, otherwise they will be absorbed into the "too big to fail" Wall St banks to shore up their capital.
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