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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
You want to dissect the difference between the voting rules for a Board of Directors [which make their own rules] and a Federally protected Labor Union's Membership vote? Or should I?
Are you just being coy? Go ahead and splain it for us, Bare, and while you are at it, splain why the union vote is "federally protected" for its management.

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:51 PM
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Bankruptcy would be a good place to dissolve the relationship with the union. They are not the cause of all problems, but they do share a large portion of the blame. I have been a member of three unions and none in the last 20 years. Sorry to all who disagree, I have no use for them. Hoffa had his place in time and maybe that time will come again. Right now they are just a parasite in search of a new host. (had to throw that in. My lawyer said that to a judge concerning my ex 20 years ago)
Was your attorney talking about solicitation of new clients or your ex wife? It could go either way.

A couple of years ago [early 2006] I started talking about the pendulum as it related to politics and then the economy. With politics I said that if the right kept up its bashing it was going to start losing. It lost big in 2006. It continued down the same political path and lost 2008.

A bit later, in the fall of 2006 I said that the flight of the pendulum regarding the the economy was going to be severe as it flew back toward recession. Failure to regulate would cause over-regulation.

Now, let's look at unions. All this talk and movement to disrupt and dissolve unions is going to cause a backlash as folks watch their jobs be disrupted and moved offshore while corporate folks get large bonuses "for a job well done". The backlash will be strong as folks reach a tipping point.

A much smarter logic, and one used by most of the rest of the world is to consider the workforce as a partnership, whether they are represented by unions or not and to work with, not against them. It appears only the fringe right in this and a few other countries that seem to have a hard-on against labor unions. I can't tell if it is because you don't understand the benefits you have gained from them or are just blinded by the right wing rhetoric that just assumes that unions are bad.

At some point the kids on the right are going to get tired of dodging all these pendulums that they have, by allowing them to stretch so far in one direction fling back toward and past them at record speed.

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, you ARE a sport. Lay it out for me. I'm all eyes!
Simple.

The board makes rules either by a worthless vote which is overturned by coersion or just arbitrarily. Sometimes they make actual business decisions that have the best interest of the employees at heart but this is very rare. In reality, they are there at the behest of the stockholders who have one track minds.

The Union actually has a vote that is counted, but rarely substantiated. Read into that what you may.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:59 PM
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Wow, you ARE a sport. Lay it out for me. I'm all eyes!
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Are you just being coy? Go ahead and splain it for us, Bare, and while you are at it, splain why the union vote is "federally protected" for its management.
Knock yourself out. You will be disappointed. NLRB :: National Labor Relations Board

Oh, and I wrote "Federally protected Labor Union's Membership vote". If I had intended the possessive to reference the word VOTE I would have placed "Federally protected" in front of "Membership vote" instead of "Labor Union".

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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I can't tell if it is because you don't understand the benefits you have gained from them or are just blinded by the right wing rhetoric that just assumes that unions are bad.
Nope, just personal experience and lots of it. As you have noticed over time, I could give shit less about what other people think. I take their opinions and form my own. Sometimes at my peril.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuantle View Post
Simple.

The board makes rules either by a worthless vote which is overturned by coersion or just arbitrarily. Sometimes they make actual business decisions that have the best interest of the employees at heart but this is very rare. In reality, they are there at the behest of the stockholders who have one track minds.

The Union actually has a vote that is counted, but rarely substantiated. Read into that what you may.
That does sum it up.

While a Board of Directors for GM is a pretty big deal, the Board of Directors for a corporation of which I am a member, which meets once a quarter, usually at The Chop House has a very specific but very loose set of rules, which are easily modified. We can pretty much do as we please.

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 09:08 PM
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Nope, just personal experience and lots of it. As you have noticed over time, I could give shit less about what other people think. I take their opinions and form my own. Sometimes at my peril.
I sometimes think it has to do with which unions to which a person is exposed. I know some unions that I don't trust and I know others that I find invaluable.

I have, because of what my work is been on both sides of the line since I retired from active [heading toward 25 years]. There are some businesses that work with their unions like well oiled machines, where everyone does well. There are other places where management blames every problem on the unions and the unions don't help their cause at all with the way they deal with management.

It boils down to perspective.

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 09:24 PM
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The anti-union arguments proposed in this thread are laughable. Firstly, unions represent their members' interests; that's their jobs from a worksite rules/benefits perspective. In this and most cases, they've done that well. In the US, unions don't sit on the board or have anything to do with corporate decision-making about products and overall strategy. The Big-Three sank themselves entirely 'cause their management led them down a short-term strategic path that didn't accurately anticipate trends or prepare for contingencies. None of that has anything to do with unions. In Germany, where unions are required by law to have a board presence, you might make this case, but otherwise STFU.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 09:35 PM
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Besides, professional sports unions did so much good for the general public they are paid to entertain.

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 09:40 PM
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Bare writes: "It appears only the fringe right in this and a few other countries that seem to have a hard-on against labor unions. I can't tell if it is because you don't understand the benefits you have gained from them.

That leads one to ask if the benefits have been so great and management so worthless, why is it that the numbers of union members have plummeted in the private sector over the past two decades. Seems like there was even a major airline that was owned by the union-- for a short while. Name a major industry that has failed and you will find a union in it--airlines, steel, public education (the original, continual bailout) and now autos.

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