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post #31 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Pearls before swine and all of that comes to mind. But alas, what I was referring to was the modern historical context of the Conservative political candidates and their ability to effectively translate their popular support into votes.

As much as Obama received more votes than McCain, he received the votes from the center. Obama's grass roots activities and his relationship with the far left wing of DNC failed to do much for him. These are the people who are hyper active in the campaigning but the people to whom their message is most widely received are those who are at best, apathetic.

The other kinds of voters that voted for Obama were the ones highlighted in the "Howobamagotelected.com" movie clip. The people who get their news and information from John Stewart, and People Magazine.

The conservatives have been much more successful in fund raising on an ongoing basis than the liberals. Like the old cliche goes, I will tell you what is important to you, just show me your check book.
Please keep your day job. Political analyst is not your forte.

You still don't define just which variant of the Conservative party of which you speak. Real conservatives or the group that is associated with Bush and McCain?

As for "the people who get their news and information from John Stewart, and People Magazine." That would be two completely different demographics. And it's JON, not JOHN.

I believe the cliche is "I will show you my checkbook once you tell me what is important to you". Though I can understand the NeoCons getting that one completely backwards. Maybe you answered which of the splinter groups of the Republican Party you were discussing afterall. The one wrapped in failure.

PROTIP: You don't pick your political affiliation based on their ability to raise money and gain votes. Usually PRINCIPLES are the first and last criterion. I notice its scant notice is much further down in your discussion.

McBear,
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post #32 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Please keep your day job. Political analyst is not your forte.

You still don't define just which variant of the Conservative party of which you speak. Real conservatives or the group that is associated with Bush and McCain?

As for "the people who get their news and information from John Stewart, and People Magazine." That would be two completely different demographics. And it's JON, not JOHN.

I believe the cliche is "I will show you my checkbook once you tell me what is important to you". Though I can understand the NeoCons getting that one completely backwards. Maybe you answered which of the splinter groups of the Republican Party you were discussing afterall. The one wrapped in failure.

PROTIP: You don't pick your political affiliation based on their ability to raise money and gain votes. Usually PRINCIPLES are the first and last criterion. I notice its scant notice is much further down in your discussion.
This is so disjointed it is comical.

I will have a hard time responding to this as we are obviously talking about entirely different things.

Please show me where I said we should pick our political affiliation based upon fund raising capabilities?

For the purpose of the fundraising discussion I am talking about conservatives in the very broad sense of the RNC.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #33 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by McBear
PROTIP: You don't pick your political affiliation based on their ability to raise money and gain votes. Usually PRINCIPLES are the first and last criterion. I notice its scant notice is much further down in your discussion.
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
This is so disjointed it is comical.

I will have a hard time responding to this as we are obviously talking about entirely different things.

Please show me where I said we should pick our political affiliation based upon fund raising capabilities?

For the purpose of the fundraising discussion I am talking about conservatives in the very broad sense of the RNC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTrower
Pearls before swine and all of that comes to mind. But alas, what I was referring to was the modern historical context of the Conservative political candidates and their ability to effectively translate their popular support into votes.

The conservatives have been much more successful in fund raising on an ongoing basis than the liberals. Like the old cliche goes, I will tell you what is important to you, just show me your check book
Your conversation defined it. You talked specifically about how the Conservatives are better at X and Y than the democrats yet, at no time did you mention PRINCIPLES, what most folks use as a guide for choosing a party and what the discussion has been about. So what are we suppose to think when everyone else is discussing principles and their variations within the splinters of the Republican Party and you bring in fundraising ONLY.

By the way, your facts on fundraising are a bit outdated. I think you are looking at 2004 data. And you got the cliche wrong.

It seems to me YOU are the one that provided the tangential, albeit erroneous fundraising concept into the mix. It must have been important to you. That is why I noted it.

And you still haven't defined which splinter of the Republican Party to which you refer when you say "conservative". Is it the Conservatives [such as Goldwater or William F. Buckley], Republicans [standard bearers no matter what the particular bent of the day], NeoConservative [Bush, Bush2, Gramm], or NeoNeoConservative [Boner, McConnell, and all those who keep trying to distance themselves from Bush and the NeoConservative Legacy]?

McBear,
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post #34 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Your conversation defined it. You talked specifically about how the Conservatives are better at X and Y than the democrats yet, at no time did you mention PRINCIPLES, what most folks use as a guide for choosing a party and what the discussion has been about. So what are we suppose to think when everyone else is discussing principles and their variations within the splinters of the Republican Party and you bring in fundraising ONLY.

By the way, your facts on fundraising are a bit outdated. I think you are looking at 2004 data. And you got the cliche wrong.

It seems to me YOU are the one that provided the tangential, albeit erroneous fundraising concept into the mix. It must have been important to you. That is why I noted it.

And you still haven't defined which splinter of the Republican Party to which you refer when you say "conservative". Is it the Conservatives [such as Goldwater or William F. Buckley], Republicans [standard bearers no matter what the particular bent of the day], NeoConservative [Bush, Bush2, Gramm], or NeoNeoConservative [Boner, McConnell, and all those who keep trying to distance themselves from Bush and the NeoConservative Legacy]?
Wow. You sure are stretching. You are reading entirely too much into the post.

This is all revolving around the Party activities. I have said repeated such. Just take my words at face value. I do not write one thing and have subtext running through it (generally, there are exceptions to every rule)

The bit about the cliche is in reference to who gives money to political parties and candidates. The base for the DNC receives smaller donations per capita than the RNC. It was a point that those who give to the DNC have other priorities for their money. Those who give to the RNC would be generally more concerned with politics than those who are giving to the DNC. The DNC donors, in my experience, tend to give their money to more diverse charities. The RNC Donors, in my experience, tend to be more targeted and give more to fewer organizations.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #35 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Wow. You sure are stretching. You are reading entirely too much into the post.

This is all revolving around the Party activities. I have said repeated such. Just take my words at face value. I do not write one thing and have subtext running through it (generally, there are exceptions to every rule)

The bit about the cliche is in reference to who gives money to political parties and candidates. The base for the DNC receives smaller donations per capita than the RNC. It was a point that those who give to the DNC have other priorities for their money. Those who give to the RNC would be generally more concerned with politics than those who are giving to the DNC. The DNC donors, in my experience, tend to give their money to more diverse charities. The RNC Donors, in my experience, tend to be more targeted and give more to fewer organizations.
Three posts and nearly 400 words later and you still haven't answered the very simple question that I asked back on post 27 and and again on post 31 and again on post 33: which splinter of the Republican Party to which you refer when you say "conservative". Is it the Conservatives [such as Goldwater or William F. Buckley], Republicans [standard bearers no matter what the particular bent of the day], NeoConservative [Bush, Bush2, Gramm], or NeoNeoConservative [Boner, McConnell, and all those who keep trying to distance themselves from Bush and the NeoConservative Legacy]?

McBear,
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post #36 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Three posts and nearly 400 words later and you still haven't answered the very simple question that I asked back on post 27 and and again on post 31 and again on post 33: which splinter of the Republican Party to which you refer when you say "conservative". Is it the Conservatives [such as Goldwater or William F. Buckley], Republicans [standard bearers no matter what the particular bent of the day], NeoConservative [Bush, Bush2, Gramm], or NeoNeoConservative [Boner, McConnell, and all those who keep trying to distance themselves from Bush and the NeoConservative Legacy]?
Whip tongue and labels, labels, and more labels. After all is said and done, unless the players background and ability change, the GOP is SOL. There are no statesmen material in the bunch now at the helm. On top of it, how can the current Administration is trying to appoint so many Republicans? To do good. Perhaps, but not until I see it to believe it. It is 100% political. So, you fellows call it what you want while the Grand Old Party builds the Titanic. I hope that, for a change, they go wrong and build the next Americas Cup Winner.

Meanwhile in the Hall of Justice: "How about Kavorkian for Liaison to GM and Chrysler?" -"Hey, why didn't I think about that."
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post #37 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Three posts and nearly 400 words later and you still haven't answered the very simple question that I asked back on post 27 and and again on post 31 and again on post 33: which splinter of the Republican Party to which you refer when you say "conservative". Is it the Conservatives [such as Goldwater or William F. Buckley], Republicans [standard bearers no matter what the particular bent of the day], NeoConservative [Bush, Bush2, Gramm], or NeoNeoConservative [Boner, McConnell, and all those who keep trying to distance themselves from Bush and the NeoConservative Legacy]?
Will you please at least read the posts? I have said several times that when I am referring to Conservatives I am lumping them all together as part of the RNC. This has been stated several times! This is an all encompassing generality with regards to the specific ideologies but we are not speaking of ideaologies in the sense of whether or not Buckley's group get's more money or Larouche's group gets more or Gingrich or Limbaugh or whoever.

Your whole question is irrelevant to the conversation!

I do not know how to answer you any more clearly than I already have. You are obviously misunderstanding the whole direction of the posts that I have made. You seem to also be the only one who is misunderstanding. I may be incorrect on that as most of the more liberal posters here prefer to be lazy and let you carry the water for them.

It is like you are BWOT's Rush Limbaugh and all the little sycophant followers of your postings are the listening audience. Funny how you and Limbaugh are a lot alike. Well except for the Beard and you probably didn't have a problem with and addiction to prescription pain killers provided to you by your housekeeper.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #38 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:47 PM
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One cannot be both a social and true conservative, since the agenda of social conservatism flies directly in the face of true conservatism. Social conservatives represent a genuine threat to true conservatives. It is one thing to oppose values, it is quite another to shill them. If the conservative movement dies, it will be because Republicans killed it.
And if it survives and thrives, it will be because the Dems gave it a reason to live.

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post #39 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 08:53 PM
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^ From your mouth to god's ear. I am personally horrified at the selling out of the GOP to the Gays, Guns, and God crowd, throwing true conservatism under a bus in the process. If Dems give it a reason to live, it will likely be as refuge.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #40 of 96 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 09:07 PM
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Three posts and nearly 400 words later and you still haven't answered the very simple question that I asked back on post 27 and and again on post 31 and again on post 33: which splinter of the Republican Party to which you refer when you say "conservative". Is it the Conservatives [such as Goldwater or William F. Buckley], Republicans [standard bearers no matter what the particular bent of the day], NeoConservative [Bush, Bush2, Gramm], or NeoNeoConservative [Boner, McConnell, and all those who keep trying to distance themselves from Bush and the NeoConservative Legacy]?
I wouldn't answer that question either, because you libs thrive on dividing folks into groups. We Repubs respect the rights of individuals, not groups, so that kind of labelling doesn't make a lot of sense in the grand scheme of politics to us. We differ on the principle of our value for freedom where your party works to increase control by the government as a major principle.

And this stuff about "where are the Republican alternatives? is just liberal agenda building. You faced the same issue when, once we were fully in Iraq, where were the liberal alternatives? Defund? Walk away? Split the population into Kurds, Sunnis and Shia? "The war is lost"--Reid.

We already have the best system of all in place--capitalism. No change needed. Libs are offering the alternative--a bad one.

Charter member of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy and proud of it.

God Bless the America we're trying to create.
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