I could guess who will be excited about the Spanish Courts... - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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I could guess who will be excited about the Spanish Courts...

but so could most who frequent BWOT, and probably better than I.



Spanish court weighs U.S. torture case
Suit alleges ex-attorney general, five others gave legal cover for torture
March. 28, 2009

MADRID - A Spanish court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay, a lawyer in the case said Saturday.

Human rights lawyers brought the case before leading anti-terror judge Baltasar Garzon, who agreed to send it on to prosecutors to decide whether it had merit, Gonzalo Boye, one of the lawyers who brought the charges, told The Associated Press.

The ex-Bush officials are Gonzales; former undersecretary of defense for policy Douglas Feith; former Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff David Addington; Justice Department officials John Yoo and Jay S. Bybee; and Pentagon lawyer William Haynes.

"The charges as related to me make no sense," Feith said Saturday. "They criticize me for promoting a controversial position that I never advocated."

Yoo declined to comment. A message left at the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco where Bybee is now a judge was not immediately returned. A message left at Chevron Corp. in San Ramon, Calif., where Haynes reportedly works as an attorney was not immediately returned.

Spanish law allows courts to reach beyond national borders in cases of torture or war crimes under a doctrine of universal justice, though the government has recently said it hopes to limit the scope of the legal process.

Garzon became famous for bringing charges against former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet in 1998, and he and other Spanish judges have agreed to investigate alleged abuses everywhere from Tibet to Argentina's "dirty war," El Salvador and Rwanda.

Spaniards among alleged torture victims
Still, the country's record in prosecuting such cases has been spotty at best, with only one suspect extradited to Spain so far.

When a similar case was brought against Israeli officials earlier this year, Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos assured his Israeli counterpart that the process would be quashed.

Even if indictments are eventually handed down against the U.S. officials, it is far from clear whether arrests would ever take place. The officials would have to travel outside the United States and to a country willing to take them into custody before possible extradition to Spain.

The officials are charged with providing a legal cover for interrogation methods like waterboarding against terrorism suspects at Guantanamo, which the Spanish human rights lawyers say amounted to torture.

Yoo, for instance, wrote a series of secret memos that claimed the president had the legal authority to circumvent the Geneva Conventions.

President George W. Bush always denied the U.S. tortured anyone. The U.S. has acknowledged that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the self-described plotter of Sept. 11, and a few other prisoners were waterboarded at secret CIA prisons before being taken to Guantanamo, but the Bush administration insisted that all interrogations were lawful.

Boye said he expected the National Court to take the case forward and dismissed concerns that it would harm bilateral relations between the two countries.

He said that some of the victims of the alleged torture were Spaniards, strengthening the argument for Spanish jurisdiction.

"When you bring a case like this you can't stop to make political judgments as to how it might affect bilateral relations between countries," he told the AP." It's too important for that."

‘A significant first step’
Boye noted that the case was brought not against interrogators who might have committed crimes but by the lawyers and other high-placed officials who gave cover for their actions.

"Our case is a denunciation of lawyers, by lawyers, because we don't believe our profession should be used to help commit such barbarities," he said.

Another lawyer with detailed knowledge of the case told the AP that Garzon's decision to consider the charges was "a significant first step." The lawyer spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.

There was no immediate comment from Garzon or the government.

The judge's decision to send the case against the American officials to prosecutors means it will proceed, at least for now. Prosecutors must now decide whether to recommend a full-blown investigation, though Garzon is not bound by their decision.

The proceedings against the Bush Administration officials could be embarrassing for Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, who has been keen to improve ties with the United States after frosty relations during the Bush Administration.

Zapatero is scheduled to meet President Barack Obama for the first time on April 5 during a summit in Prague.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. (Winston Churchill)
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 08:51 PM
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Didn't we used to be the country that hunted down criminals to the "ends of the earth"?

That Truth, Justice and the American Way thingie?

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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 08:54 PM
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No one should be ‘excited’ about this – an objective observer will agree an investigation is warranted. One is innocent until proven guilty – innocent men and their supporters should welcome an investigation.
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 09:10 PM
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These Spanish courts have a few notches on their belt in prosecuting these type of cases, if I was George Bush, I'd stay in Crawford, sort of like Pinochet was forced to stay in Chile.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 10:35 PM
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Just some no-account euroweenies trying to make a name for themselves standing up to the US by declaring moral superiority. Just another third world shithole that doesn't deserve recognition on the world stage. It's merely an attention ploy from a country that has given the world nothing but art to the modern world and less than that post-modern. They pussed out in Iraq due to a few threats and they think they can buy back thier balls with this move? The muslim terrorists in Spain carry the balls of the politicians around in thier pockets. Bite me.

I'd say the same if they went for Bubba or Barry. If you don't support GW in this one, then you don't support the US. Yeah, that's right you pussies. FU!

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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuantle View Post
Just some no-account euroweenies trying to make a name for themselves standing up to the US by declaring moral superiority. Just another third world shithole that doesn't deserve recognition on the world stage. It's merely an attention ploy from a country that has given the world nothing but art to the modern world and less than that post-modern. They pussed out in Iraq due to a few threats and they think they can buy back thier balls with this move? The muslim terrorists in Spain carry the balls of the politicians around in thier pockets. Bite me.

I'd say the same if they went for Bubba or Barry. If you don't support GW in this one, then you don't support the US. Yeah, that's right you pussies. FU!


Stu, can I ask, honestly, what countries have you ever traveled to or lived in outside of the US border?
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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuantle View Post
Just some no-account euroweenies trying to make a name for themselves standing up to the US by declaring moral superiority. Just another third world shithole that doesn't deserve recognition on the world stage. It's merely an attention ploy from a country that has given the world nothing but art to the modern world and less than that post-modern. They pussed out in Iraq due to a few threats and they think they can buy back thier balls with this move? The muslim terrorists in Spain carry the balls of the politicians around in thier pockets. Bite me.

I'd say the same if they went for Bubba or Barry. If you don't support GW in this one, then you don't support the US. Yeah, that's right you pussies. FU!

So which is it, support the rule of law which the US holds so dear or support Bushie? Can't be both. Pick one. If he is as innocent as you guys believe he can have his day in court and come out fine with no problem and the system will work as designed.

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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 11:35 PM
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So which is it, support the rule of law which the US holds so dear or support Bushie? Can't be both. Pick one. If he is as innocent as you guys believe he can have his day in court and come out fine with no problem and the system will work as designed.
How far back are we the people willing to go with courts to see who may or may not be a crimminals.

Or let me guess it starts and stops with GWB. Should they investigate other Presidents?

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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 11:43 PM
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How far back are we the people willing to go with courts to see who may or may not be a crimminals.

Or let me guess it starts and stops with GWB. Should they investigate other Presidents?
No doubt, next week you will be calling for a commission to investigate Obama for screwing this economy........
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-29-2009, 11:49 PM
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The original GW was a criminal subject to execution if caught.
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