I could guess who will be excited about the Spanish Courts... - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 07:35 AM
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Lawyer: Ex-US officials must face torture charges

MADRID – Six former Bush administration officials accused in a Spanish complaint of sanctioning the torture of terror suspects should come to Spain to face justice, a human rights lawyer urged Monday.

If they are innocent they shouldn't be afraid, lawyer Gonzalo Boye, one of the rights lawyers behind the complaint, told The Associated Press in an interview.

The case against the American officials — including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and former Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith — was brought by human rights lawyers before Spain's investigative judge Baltasar Garzon, who has sent it on to prosecutors to see if the charges merit a full investigation.

It alleges the men gave legal cover to the torture of terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by claiming that the U.S. president could ignore the Geneva Conventions and by adopting an overly narrow legal definition of torture.

In addition to Gonzales and Feith, the complaint names former Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff David Addington; Justice Department officials John Yoo and Jay S. Bybee; and Pentagon lawyer William Haynes.

Spanish law gives its courts jurisdiction beyond national borders in cases of torture or war crimes, based on a doctrine known as universal justice, though the government has recently said it hopes to limit the scope of the legal process.

The only one of the accused to comment publicly has been Feith, who said Saturday that the charges "make no sense."

"I would recommend that Mr. Feith first of all read the complaint, and secondly that he get a very good lawyer," Boye said. "If he is so sure of what he is saying — then the address of the national court is #22 Genova Street, second floor."

Prosecutors must now decide whether to recommend a full investigation. Still, Garzon is not bound by their decision.

The judge has not commented since the complaint became public Saturday. On Monday, he hustled up the steps of the National Court without speaking to journalists.

Deputy Spanish Prime Minister Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega said the government would have no comment on the merits of the case, which she said was in the hands of an independent judiciary.

"It is the courts, and only the courts, that must make a decision on this," she was quoted as saying in Monday's Publico newspaper.

Still, the proceedings could not have come at a more delicate time for Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, who has been hoping for better relations with the United States. The Bush administration never forgave Zapatero for pulling Spanish troops out of Iraq, and he was the only Western European leader never invited to the White House.

Zapatero is scheduled to meet President Barack Obama for the first time on April 5 during a summit in Prague.

Lawyer: Ex-US officials must face torture charges
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 09:02 AM
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Am I suppose to be surprise by that statement?

Would you like to see the Spaniards go after O BA MA for possible giving orders that lead to the killing of civilians also?
War crimes have very specific criteria. Collateral death is not one of those criteria.

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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 09:04 AM
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Oh, and do I have to do everything here? Dig, Yosey...you guys are napping.

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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 09:09 AM
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So which is it, support the rule of law which the US holds so dear or support Bushie? Can't be both. Pick one. If he is as innocent as you guys believe he can have his day in court and come out fine with no problem and the system will work as designed.
When has the U.S. ever been willing to submit to the rule of law? As a nation, we have consistently held ourselves above the court of world opinion, and the court of world law. That said, this whole Spanish thing is pretty silly, and may be intended to appease the same terrorists that drove them from Iraq with their collective tails between their legs. The court that the Bush cabal such face is not that of Spain, but rather the Hague.

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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 09:14 AM
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War crimes have very specific criteria. Collateral death is not one of those criteria.
Pakistan ostensibly reported no hostiles in the village, which would rule out collateral.

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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 10:26 AM
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The Other Side Of The Inquisition

I have no qualm with the Spanish Courts getting their nose in any just or unjust international affair. But, Judge Garzon and his sequel has a tract to the left of Castro and is deaf to the claims that politically are centrist or moderately to the right. I, when in Argentina, get tired with local and Spanish prosecutions for human rights violations. Why? Because they are totally partial. In Barcelona lives a man called Firmenich (formerly chief in an antisocial and antidemocratic revolutionary clandestine movement). He had five persons shot after being kidnapped from their homes, among which was the best President I new, and probably of all times, in Argentina. Judge Garzon made public his dedication to prosecute all violators of human rights no matter where they were. He has yet to prosecute one from the center-left or left. So, now it's Bush's turn. Believe me it will be just headlines. Nevertheless some of you can and will have a blast.
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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 10:54 AM
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When has the U.S. ever been willing to submit to the rule of law? As a nation, we have consistently held ourselves above the court of world opinion, and the court of world law. That said, this whole Spanish thing is pretty silly, and may be intended to appease the same terrorists that drove them from Iraq with their collective tails between their legs. The court that the Bush cabal such face is not that of Spain, but rather the Hague.
This is the point that is lost on the masses. It has nothing to do with GW and everything to do with the weakness of Spain's leadership.
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 11:59 AM
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Pakistan ostensibly reported no hostiles in the village, which would rule out collateral.
So, are you reporting information from their MEDIA sources, their propaganda sources, their PM sources or their Military Sources?

Is the information that you suggest intended for public consumption to sway local opinion or is it hard empirical evidence? Much like the lessons we have learned from Iraq or Gaza there is plenty of spin on damned near every action.

That is were investigations and courts clear the air.

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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 12:03 PM
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When has the U.S. ever been willing to submit to the rule of law? As a nation, we have consistently held ourselves above the court of world opinion, and the court of world law. That said, this whole Spanish thing is pretty silly, and may be intended to appease the same terrorists that drove them from Iraq with their collective tails between their legs. The court that the Bush cabal such face is not that of Spain, but rather the Hague.
I agree that it would be a more logical choice for the Hague to address this and clear the air on the subject but, as Pinochet found out, international torture laws can be addressed pretty much anywhere.

Even we, in the US have been known to try and prosecute a leader who tortures folks. I believe that was reason number 7.R.2.a for invading Iraq.

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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-30-2009, 12:04 PM
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So, are you reporting information from their MEDIA sources, their propaganda sources, their PM sources or their Military Sources?

Is the information that you suggest intended for public consumption to sway local opinion or is it hard empirical evidence? Much like the lessons we have learned from Iraq or Gaza there is plenty of spin on damned near every action.

That is were investigations and courts clear the air.
Good, we're on the same page about investigating O BA MA for murder then.

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