" Shanes Newest Caddy Purchase " - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 05:47 PM
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I want to be shane.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 05:53 PM
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Does the A/C work properly on all of them (the ones that have it of course)? I assume you do not retrofit the original R12 systems to R134. You know that A/C compressors love to be run and seals dry out fast if they sit for a long time.
Absolutely the A/C works as new on all of them, climate controls included (if you know how significant that is). The cars with old compressors I do not convert. The ones with new ones get converted. R12 still gets a little colder but R134 is so much cheaper and easier I feel it is a moot point. The A/C 's get run at least once every two months, and this keeps the seals sufficiently moist in most cases. The '85 Biarittz and '82 Diesel were both run yesterday for example, probably a little over a month for each since previous run. The diesel I actually took out and drove around for about 3 miles since it had not been moved in 4 months. You get the idea.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 06:03 PM
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the comparison between a V8 and a V12 isn't a decision, it's an opportunity.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 06:06 PM
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^^ now what? NOW WHAT!!!

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Originally Posted by Stryker-1999 S600 View Post
the comparison between a V8 and a V12 isn't a decision, it's an opportunity.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 06:11 PM
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Absolutely the A/C works as new on all of them, climate controls included (if you know how significant that is). The cars with old compressors I do not convert. The ones with new ones get converted. R12 still gets a little colder but R134 is so much cheaper and easier I feel it is a moot point. The A/C 's get run at least once every two months, and this keeps the seals sufficiently moist in most cases. The '85 Biarittz and '82 Diesel were both run yesterday for example, probably a little over a month for each since previous run. The diesel I actually took out and drove around for about 3 miles since it had not been moved in 4 months. You get the idea.
An '82 Caddy diesel? The infamous GM 350 gas block converted to diesel? I remember these well. Certainly a unique collectible. I know that they had diesel as standard equipment on Seville for at least one year. I remember the old GM commercials. "GM, what have you done to the diesel?" (meaning how quiet it is, instead of how they screwed it up). Many of these cars ended up having their engines swapped out for gas ones. I heard of these "diesel" engines giving up ghost after 40k miles of so. Yours is probably such a low mileage example that it will never die.

Last edited by p100; 03-22-2009 at 06:16 PM.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 06:36 PM
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The 350 cu in diesel was not a converted 5.7 Liter gas engine, that is a common misnomer. In 1981 (my car is an '82) came the second generation diesel block (DX) with many improvements over the so called D block. Many of the DX blocks have gone well over 200k miles without any internal failure. Many. There are websites dedicated and outlined about such occurrences. Please Google them if you wish. Below is a Wiki write up that is brief but close enough...

In the face of the 1970's 'gas crisis', GM turned to Diesel power for economic benefit, directing the Oldsmobile division to develop a V6 and two V8 engines, to be shared with all divisions.

These Diesel engines were designed to fit into the engine bays of gasoline powered automobiles, but despite popular belief, they were not "converted" gasoline engines. Oldsmobile's diesel engines, the 5.7 L LF9 and 4.3 L LF7 V8s and 4.3 L LT6/LT7/LS2 V6, were notoriously unreliable, particularly in the earliest versions, though reliability had improved by the early 1980s with the advent of the DX block, along with better fuel filtering and water separators. By the early 80s,the 5.7L diesel was a fairly reliable engine with the introduction of the rollerized camshaft/roller lifter combination and had many improved enhancements that the late 70's 5.7L diesel engines did not have. Many of the reliability issues these engines developed were a combination of faults not just related to design. Many of these engines suffered major malfunctions from poor quality fuel, mechanics not properly trained in diesel repair, and even improper owner service and maintenance. Although over one million were sold between 1978 and 1985, the failure rate of GM's engines ruined the reputation of Diesel engines not just built by GM, but overall in the United States market. Eventually, a class action lawsuit resulted in an arbitration system under the supervision of the Federal Trade Commission where consumers could claim 80% of the original cost of the engine in the event of a failure.

The Oldsmobile 5.7 liter engines experienced a wide gamut of malfunctions. One of the common failures was with crankshaft bearings. This was frequently attributed to owners and maintainers running the engines on SG rated oil (intended for gasoline engines), versus CD oil (intended for Diesel engines). This prompted GM to introduce the DX block which then allowed extended oil change intervals to 5,000 miles (8,000 km). D block engines required frequent oil change intervals because of the friction created between the typical flat tappet camshaft and hydraulic lifters. When the oil change interval was ignored,excessive wear was placed upon the camshaft and lifters. In 1981 when the DX block was introduced, the rollerized camshaft and roller lifters did away with any possibility of worn camshaft lobes because of reduced friction. These engines also suffered from blown head gaskets, warped heads, bad injector pumps, and bad injectors. The beginnings of these problems can be attributed to poor quality diesel fuel that may have contained water or other contaminants. These materials would damage the inside of the injector pump, and then eventually clog injectors. If water was injected into the engine or leaked in from the coolant system, it could cause a "hydrolock" which would blow head gaskets and bend valves / connecting rods because water is incompressible. Water in the fuel also causes the injectors to rust internally, affecting injection timing and causing the engine to run excessively hot, which can warp heads. This was the reason GM equipped later cars with water detectors and double filtration systems on their vehicles.

Torque-to-yield fasteners - which stretch and can only be used once, but provide higher clamping force than traditional head bolts - were used to retain the Diesel cylinder heads. When a hapless owner took the vehicle in for repair, the mechanic would resurface the head, making it thinner, install a new head gasket, and then reuse the old, stretched-out fasteners. It would not be but a few thousand miles, and the vehicle was in the shop again for head gasket failure or a warped head. Nowadays high performance head bolt kits are available to do away with the problems the 5.7L diesel engines had such as the blown head gasket fiasco. Performance bolt fasteners when used within the 5.7L diesel will then make it a bulletproof, reliable design. The frustrated owner would frequently just get the shop to convert the engine to gasoline after a few repeated failures like this. As a side note, these diesel engine blocks were frequently sought by hot-rodders to build high-performance gasoline engines because of their extra heavy duty components which would withstand extreme horsepower.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 07:00 PM
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^^ now what? NOW WHAT!!!
Oh! ok first it'll be Greek followed by ATM and if your a Bear.... davey just might not like it so you may have to go for a Quimby with a little Half & Half.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 07:45 PM
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The 350 cu in diesel was not a converted 5.7 Liter gas engine, that is a common misnomer. In 1981 (my car is an '82) came the second generation diesel block (DX) with many improvements over the so called D block. Many of the DX blocks have gone well over 200k miles without any internal failure. Many. There are websites dedicated and outlined about such occurrences. Please Google them if you wish. Below is a Wiki write up that is brief but close enough...

In the face of the 1970's 'gas crisis', GM turned to Diesel power for economic benefit, directing the Oldsmobile division to develop a V6 and two V8 engines, to be shared with all divisions.

These Diesel engines were designed to fit into the engine bays of gasoline powered automobiles, but despite popular belief, they were not "converted" gasoline engines. Oldsmobile's diesel engines, the 5.7 L LF9 and 4.3 L LF7 V8s and 4.3 L LT6/LT7/LS2 V6, were notoriously unreliable, particularly in the earliest versions, though reliability had improved by the early 1980s with the advent of the DX block, along with better fuel filtering and water separators. By the early 80s,the 5.7L diesel was a fairly reliable engine with the introduction of the rollerized camshaft/roller lifter combination and had many improved enhancements that the late 70's 5.7L diesel engines did not have. Many of the reliability issues these engines developed were a combination of faults not just related to design. Many of these engines suffered major malfunctions from poor quality fuel, mechanics not properly trained in diesel repair, and even improper owner service and maintenance. Although over one million were sold between 1978 and 1985, the failure rate of GM's engines ruined the reputation of Diesel engines not just built by GM, but overall in the United States market. Eventually, a class action lawsuit resulted in an arbitration system under the supervision of the Federal Trade Commission where consumers could claim 80% of the original cost of the engine in the event of a failure.

The Oldsmobile 5.7 liter engines experienced a wide gamut of malfunctions. One of the common failures was with crankshaft bearings. This was frequently attributed to owners and maintainers running the engines on SG rated oil (intended for gasoline engines), versus CD oil (intended for Diesel engines). This prompted GM to introduce the DX block which then allowed extended oil change intervals to 5,000 miles (8,000 km). D block engines required frequent oil change intervals because of the friction created between the typical flat tappet camshaft and hydraulic lifters. When the oil change interval was ignored,excessive wear was placed upon the camshaft and lifters. In 1981 when the DX block was introduced, the rollerized camshaft and roller lifters did away with any possibility of worn camshaft lobes because of reduced friction. These engines also suffered from blown head gaskets, warped heads, bad injector pumps, and bad injectors. The beginnings of these problems can be attributed to poor quality diesel fuel that may have contained water or other contaminants. These materials would damage the inside of the injector pump, and then eventually clog injectors. If water was injected into the engine or leaked in from the coolant system, it could cause a "hydrolock" which would blow head gaskets and bend valves / connecting rods because water is incompressible. Water in the fuel also causes the injectors to rust internally, affecting injection timing and causing the engine to run excessively hot, which can warp heads. This was the reason GM equipped later cars with water detectors and double filtration systems on their vehicles.

Torque-to-yield fasteners - which stretch and can only be used once, but provide higher clamping force than traditional head bolts - were used to retain the Diesel cylinder heads. When a hapless owner took the vehicle in for repair, the mechanic would resurface the head, making it thinner, install a new head gasket, and then reuse the old, stretched-out fasteners. It would not be but a few thousand miles, and the vehicle was in the shop again for head gasket failure or a warped head. Nowadays high performance head bolt kits are available to do away with the problems the 5.7L diesel engines had such as the blown head gasket fiasco. Performance bolt fasteners when used within the 5.7L diesel will then make it a bulletproof, reliable design. The frustrated owner would frequently just get the shop to convert the engine to gasoline after a few repeated failures like this. As a side note, these diesel engine blocks were frequently sought by hot-rodders to build high-performance gasoline engines because of their extra heavy duty components which would withstand extreme horsepower.
Thanks. I was not aware of some of the details described. But wouldn't Mercedes diesels of the same time period, and large commercial trucks diesels be subjected to the same fuel problems, and incompetent maintenance? Yet they lasted hundreds of thousands of miles without major problems. The truth is that these GM diesels were simply not robust enough to be durable given typical abuses such diesels see in their lifetime.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 08:11 PM
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They were not perfect engines, but with a little knowledge and careful maintenance the DX block can last 200k miles. Mercedes had many decades previous experience with diesels.
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