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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 12:43 AM Thread Starter
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More about teen sexting

How many of us would have done this in our youth?

Teen ‘sexting’: Youthful prank or sex crime?
With child porn charges being leveled, some say laws are behind the times
By Mike Celizic
March. 10, 2009

A 15-year-old Pennsylvania girl is facing child pornography charges for sending nude photos of herself to other kids. A 19-year-old Florida man got thrown out of college and has to register as a sex offender for 25 years because he sent nude pictures of his girlfriend to other teens.

The growing phenomenon of kids using their cell phones and computers to share racy photos and videos is known as “sexting.” It is a problem that society is having trouble dealing with, and the punishments do not fit the perceived crimes, attorney Larry Walters told TODAY’s Matt Lauer Tuesday in New York.

“Kids will be kids, but that doesn’t make them criminals. This problem needs to be solved as a social problem, not a criminal problem,” Walters said.

Tragic consequences
Walters was joined by Internet safety consultant Parry Aftab, who campaigns against the dangers presented to juveniles by modern communications technology. While Walters talked about how inappropriate it is to treat juveniles the same as adult pedophiles, Aftab talked about the very real dangers that sexting can lead to.

Aftab didn’t argue with Walters’ assertion that the law has not caught up with technology. But, she said, “We don’t really have a choice. There’s nothing else out there, and we are relying on prosecutorial discretion, meaning the prosecutors won’t bring these cases. But when kids are out of hand, prosecutors are saying enough is enough.”

Kids may not think there is any harm in sending revealing pictures to boyfriends and girlfriends, but Aftab brought up the case of Jesse Logan, an 18-year-old high school student from Cincinnati who killed herself after her ex-boyfriend sent nude pictures of her to other girls in her school. Jesse’s mother, Cynthia Logan, and Aftab visited TODAY last week to talk about the tragic case.

They told of how some of the girls who received Jesse Logan’s pictures harassed and bullied her for months. Cynthia Logan alleges that school officials did not take steps to stop the harassment. Jesse told her story to a local television station, and when that didn’t stop the harassment, she hanged herself in her bedroom last July.

Aftab has enlisted Cynthia Logan’s help in spreading the word about the dangers of technology and sexting. “I’ve got my Teen Angels and my volunteers working on my campaign now with Cynthia and Jesse’s friends to try to use her story as the story that will change behavior,” Aftab told Lauer. “We think that Jesse’s voice and what happened here can make a difference. They need to understand the laws as written now, when applied to them, might mean they’re registered sex offenders.”

Children or adults?
Walters did not condone what happened to Logan. Instead, he focused on the application of child pornography laws to children who are guilty mainly of bad judgment.

“The punishment doesn’t fit the crime,” Walters told Lauer, addressing the growing number of teens and young adults being charged as sex offenders for sexting pictures. “These child porn laws were designed to punish a very different behavior. A kid sending a racy picture is a very different behavior than a pedophile forcing a toddler to perform a sex act on camera. That’s what these child porn laws were designed to address.”

Walters pointed out that if an adult shares revealing photos of nude adults with other adults, it’s not a crime. But if kids share similar photos of other kids, it may be.

A recent survey showed that 20 percent of kids under the age of 17 have admitted that they received revealing photos of other kids. That, Walters said, presents a problem that the laws aren’t equipped to handle.

“We are holding kids to a higher standard than adults who do the same kind of thing,” Walters said.

Lauer said that the fact remains that the teens are not adults.

“These teens don’t see themselves as children. They see themselves as teens. They don’t see what they’re doing as child pornography,” Walters replied. “Teens believe it is normal. It is normal for them. To use child porn laws to punish teens for behavior the law was never designed to address is overkill, number one, and it dilutes the effectiveness of child pornography laws for everyone else.”

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. (Winston Churchill)
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 02:50 PM
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I think these prosecutions of teens for this is just dumb. The law is senseless on this. While there are certainly different consequencies, a girl sending a cell phone photo of herself is no different than when she flashes herself at a party or where ever. The law and technology have not quite come to terms with each other.

Were folks getting arrested for photocopying their ass on the Xerox machine 30 years ago? NO. Were kids being arrested for pantie raids in colleges for the past 80 years? NO.

There are some adults who seem to have forgotten what being a teen is. At one of my high school class reunions I heard two classmates talking. One of the women was discussing how she was raising her child in a Christian environment and that she had never done any of this stuff that some of the kids were doing.

I went up to her a bit later and reminded her of the couple of times that she was on the roof of the high school, slightly drunk, very naked and screwing a different person each time I saw her up there.

I know folks don't want kids making life altering mistakes but there is a difference in teaching a kid a lesson and prosecuting a kid for childish pranks.



And to answer your question, I think ALL of us, on some level or another.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 03:49 PM
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I am always flat amazed the number of young people who have no qualms with being nude or doing sexual acts in front of the camera for Internet purposes. I was approached a long time ago (naturally) but laughed it off immediately and viewed the questionnaire as a skank. Who wants to be remembered or even seen like that? Same goes for the Davey, except more so in his day and age, since he is better looking.

Criminal? NO.

Naive? YES.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 04:30 PM
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Look, this is a problem that solves itself. It's a non-problem. It doesn't merit discussion. If a kid comes up in a home that results in this type of behavior, then so be it. If I've failed as a parent to the degree that my son would get involved in this type of nonsense, that's on me.

"Kids being kids" doesn't excuse "kids acting out as lascivious adults". People can debate the penalties & crimes thing all day long, but it's pissing in the wind. None of that shit matters if your child is behaving like a civilized human being.

We did all sorts of shit in the past that is inexcusable by today's standards, and rightly so. It's called learning from our mistakes. Figuring out which mistakes are OK for people to keep making is a slippery slope. This is a non-problem, it affects a minuscule number of people, it is not a societal ill that demands our urgent attention.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Look, this is a problem that solves itself. It's a non-problem. It doesn't merit discussion. If a kid comes up in a home that results in this type of behavior, then so be it. If I've failed as a parent to the degree that my son would get involved in this type of nonsense, that's on me.

"Kids being kids" doesn't excuse "kids acting out as lascivious adults". People can debate the penalties & crimes thing all day long, but it's pissing in the wind. None of that shit matters if your child is behaving like a civilized human being.

We did all sorts of shit in the past that is inexcusable by today's standards, and rightly so. It's called learning from our mistakes. Figuring out which mistakes are OK for people to keep making is a slippery slope. This is a non-problem, it affects a minuscule number of people, it is not a societal ill that demands our urgent attention.
It has nothing to do as to whether you have failed as a parent. When I grew up I knew kids who had crappy parents and kids who had exemplary parents and, teens are still teens. We all push the envelop to some degree.

What has to change is cops and prosecutors that can't [or won't] make a definitive difference between kids being kids and real adult sexual predators.

So it is an issue. And lives are being screwed up because cops and DA's think they are judges and moralists.

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
It has nothing to do as to whether you have failed as a parent. When I grew up I knew kids who had crappy parents and kids who had exemplary parents and, teens are still teens. We all push the envelop to some degree.

What has to change is cops and prosecutors that can't [or won't] make a definitive difference between kids being kids and real adult sexual predators.

So it is an issue. And lives are being screwed up because cops and DA's think they are judges and moralists.
Okay, I'll qualify my statement by saying if your goal is to raise a promiscuous young adult with a non-existent sense of self-worth, then having a kid who will take nude pictures of herself and send them to virtual strangers via cell phone / having a kid who will publish said photos on the internet to further humiliate an already vulnerable young woman could be qualified as a success.

Writing off idiotic and extreme behavior as "teens being teens" is completely irresponsible. It's the same type of hand-washing intentional ignorance behind handing out condoms at school. "Teens will be teens, so why fight it?"

Because, motherfuckers, it's your job as parents. And not to fight it, but to have a relationship and to be involved enough as role models to your children so that this type of activity would be unthinkable. As it should be - unthinkable. So yes, "failure" is a matter of perspective. You're right.


As far as how many kids are being affected by this (confusing this kind of thing for genuine sex crimes), I doubt you could fill a hotel conference room with them. Nothing to see here, move along.

Last edited by Qubes; 03-11-2009 at 08:37 PM.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 09:07 PM
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PROVE IT................I want Photos..................Texican.............
Now how in the hell can I do that? All those photos are from the 80's and early 90's and of course are on paper. I have no scanner, but I ought to get them changed over I guess. Just finding the time would be helpful. Davey was a stud of death, I was good enough to get most anything I wanted but nowhere near his level. He was model/actor level. Now if he could only act...
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 09:10 PM
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This reminds me of an incident in which a black woman flung a cupfull of crushed ice (after having finished her soft drink in a paper cup) through the open window of her car into another car through their open window. She did it because the driver of the other car rudely cut in front of her. Nobody was hurt in any way.

Instead of accepting what was probably a funny gesture, the offended party sued the woman and she was actually put on trial and the prosecuting lawyer spoke of a "deadly missile" being flung at the car occupants.

Oh, how I would love to grab that asshole and send him to Iraq or Afghanistan, put him in uniform and send him on a foot patrol to show him what a deadly missile really is. Unbelievable.

And what is even more unbelievable, the jury found the woman guilty of an aggravated assault. I just hope that the judge had enough common sense to give her a suspended sentence or better yet, throw out the whole case and say a few choice words to the asshole who brought the law suit against her and his stupid lawyer who actually represented him, as well as the jury of 12 morons.

In fact, I think the woman should have brought her own lawsuit against this character, claiming that he flung a very large deadly missile (= his car) dangerously at her car.

This country needs an overhaul.

Last edited by p100; 03-11-2009 at 09:28 PM.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 09:44 PM
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Okay, I'll qualify my statement by saying if your goal is to raise a promiscuous young adult with a non-existent sense of self-worth, then having a kid who will take nude pictures of herself and send them to virtual strangers via cell phone / having a kid who will publish said photos on the internet to further humiliate an already vulnerable young woman could be qualified as a success.

Writing off idiotic and extreme behavior as "teens being teens" is completely irresponsible. It's the same type of hand-washing intentional ignorance behind handing out condoms at school. "Teens will be teens, so why fight it?"

Because, motherfuckers, it's your job as parents. And not to fight it, but to have a relationship and to be involved enough as role models to your children so that this type of activity would be unthinkable. As it should be - unthinkable. So yes, "failure" is a matter of perspective. You're right.


As far as how many kids are being affected by this (confusing this kind of thing for genuine sex crimes), I doubt you could fill a hotel conference room with them. Nothing to see here, move along.
You miss my point completely. YOU can be the absolute best parent you can possibly be, doing EVERYTHING CORRECTLY but that doesn't stop your child from either peer pressure or hormones. You, no matter how good you are can't beat those two foes. You can teach your child the best you can and hope for the best.

I don't suggest blowing it off as "teens will be teens" BY THE PARENTS. It is their responsibility. It is when a 15, 16, 17 year old gets busted for an innocuous act, and now has a record that the system screwed up. THAT is my point. It SHOULD stay with the parents and let you guys do your job.

As far as how many kids are doing it, look at facebook or myspace. It will scare the crap out of you [with good reason].


And I know I don't have kids that I raised. I am the guy [and have been for years] that the very good kids call when they screw up and are too afraid to call their very good parents because they know they screwed up. So I have seen very wonderful parents, truly the most well intentioned ones ever have their kids fully crash and burn and need bailed out or stitched up or just convince the cops that mom and dad are out of town and Uncle Bear will take care of it.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 07:32 AM
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You miss my point completely. YOU can be the absolute best parent you can possibly be, doing EVERYTHING CORRECTLY but that doesn't stop your child from either peer pressure or hormones. You, no matter how good you are can't beat those two foes. You can teach your child the best you can and hope for the best.

I don't suggest blowing it off as "teens will be teens" BY THE PARENTS. It is their responsibility. It is when a 15, 16, 17 year old gets busted for an innocuous act, and now has a record that the system screwed up. THAT is my point. It SHOULD stay with the parents and let you guys do your job.

As far as how many kids are doing it, look at facebook or myspace. It will scare the crap out of you [with good reason].


And I know I don't have kids that I raised. I am the guy [and have been for years] that the very good kids call when they screw up and are too afraid to call their very good parents because they know they screwed up. So I have seen very wonderful parents, truly the most well intentioned ones ever have their kids fully crash and burn and need bailed out or stitched up or just convince the cops that mom and dad are out of town and Uncle Bear will take care of it.

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Originally Posted by mcbear 09-01-2008, 02:17 PM View Post
Now I do find the rationalizations on the real pregnancy of Bristol to be intriguing. I love how "family values" is so pliable of a concept.
Odd, that.

I realize there's plenty of wiggle room for you here but on their face, the two comments don't jibe. On the one hand, you say that even the best possible parenting can't guarantee the desired outcome. However, your earlier view on "family values" seems to mock a parent's best efforts to instill proper behavior because the screw up you anticipate can't be explained any way other than by parental failure and the rationalizations that arise in its aftermath.

Oh. Looks like you were right about this, though. Damn.
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Oh yeah, you betcha at some point in the future a defensive thought will pop into your head, terrorist like and like John McCain, God love him, you will begin to feel wanting to know how if you think it would feel and um with pressure to know what you think darn it you will wanna consider the pressure and terrorist implicates and knowing what you know everybody all relentless and all.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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