Class war against the wealthy backfires against the middle class - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 12:48 PM
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Perhaps you can try to piss me off and show me where I am wrong? Cal Thomas is a Religious Right Extremist who thinks raped women should be denied abortions. Fuck that fascist pig.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #42 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 12:52 PM
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Perhaps you can try to piss me off and show me where I am wrong? Cal Thomas is a Religious Right Extremist who thinks raped women should be denied abortions. Fuck that fascist pig.
I personally don't like abortion, but I would never abolish it. I agree wholeheartedly with your example that there is a definate place for the operation in our society.
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post #43 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 09:23 PM
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Jason Pye?
what a joke. He's on Fix News.
posts on United Liberty... and hes a libertarian. nice "non-biased" person!!!

figures, %, "stats" can portray and be manipulated to mean whatever you want it to mean.

Rich don't necessarily create jobs when they are taxed less.
nor, do they cut jobs when taxed more.
they generally raise prices so they don't lose any income.
either way, the middle class... and certainly the lower classes lose out.

the rich have gained tremendous amounts of wealth under Bush.
Lets take some back and build some schools, roads, bridges and anything else that helps EVERYONE.

ok?
I'm not going to go into why school lunches and tax breaks for healthcare help everyone.. since I've done it a few times.

lets just say: Pay me now, or pay me later. and you don't want the later payment.
it costs the taxpayers 10 times as much if someone has no health insurance, using the ER as their primary care doctor and ambulances as taxis to get them there.
next!!!
Populist pap. Those figures came from IRS--how were they maniipulated?

Business folks may try to raise prices to make up for tax increases but they must operate in a competitive market place that sets their prices overall. Yes, maybe you haven't thought about that--the market sets prices, not the business.

The lower classes, except for that permanent group of losers, is a very mobile group. The rich made out well under Bush, but the number of rich grew tremendously. Where did they come from? Do you suppose they came from the middle class?

Looks like you want equalization. Unfortunately, everywhere that's been tried all the folks end up equally miserable.

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post #44 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 09:42 PM
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maybe this will interest you.

taxes are too high?
gee.. they have been way higher.
only 6 yrs ago...
hmm..
so. deficit goes up, taxes go down? doesn't make sense does it?
oh yes it does.
so, we tax, we get out of debt.
it works in the personal finance realm.
if I make more money, I get out of debt.
here's the tax rates in the past .
if you're a history buff, you might want to correlate tax rates to what was happening at the time.
quite eye opening.

tax rates from 1913-2008
Makes a lot of sense when spending is increased.

Your view is one of a wage-earner, however your long term wealth will not come from wages, but from capital investments, if you are smart.

As a wager, you have no control over the frequency and amount of the flow of money into your pocket, so your tax liability is also not controllable. As you earn it, they tax it.

When you own capital items, stocks, bonds, real estate, whatever, you can control the frequency and timing of buying and selling. Taxes are only accrued when you decide to sell. Let's assume you have a sizeable gain on an asset. Tell me whether you would prefer to sell when the tax rate is high or low? How would your decision be affected if you knew that the tax rate was going to be raised soon? What effect would that have on tax collections for the government?

Now think about if you decided to open your own business as a corporation. You carefully detailed your income and expense projections and determine that your bottomline shows that you can just replace your salary plus a return on your financial investment. You then discover that a proposed corporate tax increase will wipe out the return on your money invested. You are then back to starting a business that will only replace your salary. Why would you do that, risking your money, security, free time to break even or worse. Corporate taxation discourages investment and capital risk.

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post #45 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 09:56 PM
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Interesting question; how about we start with the one you work for?
I have no idea how that is relevant.

Jim
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post #46 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 10:04 PM
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I have no idea how that is relevant.

Jim
Reality is always a double check on one's opinions. You don't disclose about yourself because we might learn that your reality is not consistent with your opinions as stated on BWOT.

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post #47 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 10:12 PM
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Nina Pelosi? When did she change her first name?
Apparently Columbus is somehow involved in this conspiracy against the good people of America. Not all the people, mind you, just the "good" people.

Pinta Obama and Santa Maria Reid are weighing anchor now.

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post #48 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 10:16 PM
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Reality is always a double check on one's opinions. You don't disclose about yourself because we might learn that your reality is not consistent with your opinions as stated on BWOT.
I see no need to "disclose" any details of my personal life on an internet forum as justification of my opinions. Unfortunately too many of you guys do. Your personal circumstances may change in the near future. Will that make your opinions on what the "right thing" is change as well? Seems like your opinions may be pretty superficial. I think we had a discussion on this subject on the forum quite a while ago.

Jim
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post #49 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 10:22 PM
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Breaking down the income tax burden
There is new tax data out over at the Tax Foundation:

[T]he top-earning 25 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $62,068) earned 67.5 percent of nation's income, but they paid more than four out of every five dollars collected by the federal income tax (86 percent). The top 1 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $364,657) earned approximately 21.2 percent of the nation's income (as defined by AGI), yet paid 39.4 percent of all federal income taxes. That means the top 1 percent of tax returns paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the bottom 95 percent of tax returns.

The IRS data also shows increases in individual incomes across all income groups. Just as the highest earners lost the biggest percentage of their incomes during the recession of 2001, so they have prospered the most as the economy has continued to rebound. In sum, between 2000 and 2005, pre-tax income for the top 1 percent group grew by 19.1 percent. In the same time period, pre-tax income for the bottom 50 percent increased by 15.5 percent.

The National Taxpayers Union has this same data, but also includes the dollar amount of income that defines each group. You are in the top 25% of income earners if your bring in more than $62,068 a year.

You see these numbers and you can't help but laugh when leftist say that the evil and hated "rich" aren't paying their fair share of taxes.
"The top-earning 25 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $62,068) earned 67.5 percent of nation's income, but they paid more than four out of every five dollars collected by the federal income tax (86 percent)". Well DUH, glad that simple mathematics works for the guy. Is that somehow a surprise to anyone that has passed 9th grade Algebra?

What a bogus analysis. The first three paragraphs discuss the aggregate of all taxpayers, from the busboy at McDonalds to Bill Gates, and all 154Million taxpayers in between and the last sentence attempts to access a conclusion based on singularity that a "rich" person [by whatever his definition is] is or isn't paying his fair share.

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post #50 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 10:32 PM
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"The top-earning 25 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $62,068) earned 67.5 percent of nation's income, but they paid more than four out of every five dollars collected by the federal income tax (86 percent)". Well DUH, glad that simple mathematics works for the guy. Is that somehow a surprise to anyone that has passed 9th grade Algebra?

What a bogus analysis. The first three paragraphs discuss the aggregate of all taxpayers, from the busboy at McDonalds to Bill Gates, and all 154Million taxpayers in between and the last sentence attempts to access a conclusion based on singularity that a "rich" person [by whatever his definition is] is or isn't paying his fair share.
It also fails to allocate the benefits of the taxes spent by the government on all their duties and projects to the "rich" and "not rich" groups that apparently must exist. The "rich" end up with all the money being spent, and reap the greatest benefits from the institutions the spent taxes enable or ensure remain viable and useful. Therefore, the "rich" should pay the greatest share.

Jim
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