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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 06:21 PM
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that is not what is happening though.. just a patch after patch on top of another patch. rebuilding is still ways away with this kind of thinking.



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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 07:41 PM
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In fairness, I would also say Bernanke & Geithner are guessing as well.
Government should focus on putting the safety net in place but should not attempt to stop the slide.
If you note, Bernanke and Geithner are not putting a timetable on when things will be over.

To say "It will be shorter without" has no merit. And that is the point you are trying to avoid.


Plus, a safety net IS a stop of a slide. That is its function, whether in finance or a circus.

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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 07:45 PM
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Ask yourself are you ready and able to rebuild from the ashes??
Could I modify your question just a bit?

Ask yourself are you ready and able to rebuild from the ashes from the inside of the building without having gotten out while it was burning??

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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 07:52 PM
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Japan's lost generation anyone?
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 08:08 PM
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STOP. Just stop. We have to address that very first assumption that keeps being thrown around but never, ever supported. "It might be a whole bunch worse, but it will be shorter without." You have no proof, no modeling, no analysis, no evidence, no parallels, no expertise to make that statement. PERIOD. That is not intended as an insult to you, it is just a statement that folks keep making that has ZERO evidence to support it.
There is no proof. your right how about commonsense if there is no proof don't spend it

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 08:36 PM
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One big government solution is nearly approved--allowing bankruptcy judges to modify loan terms or force refinancing. That will increase the costs to lenders who will eventually pass them on to those of us who use the credit market appropriately, giving us Jimmy Carter interest rates. The best gov't solution to a severe recession is to get the hell out of the way.

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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 08:48 PM
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One big government solution is nearly approved--allowing bankruptcy judges to modify loan terms or force refinancing. That will increase the costs to lenders who will eventually pass them on to those of us who use the credit market appropriately, giving us Jimmy Carter interest rates. The best gov't solution to a severe recession is to get the hell out of the way.
using your rationale..

lets say we allow all the loans to default, thereby making banks land owners/homeowners.
They MAY probably get 50% of the value from the loan, if, the can sell them at all..
Is that better than 80%+ interest if mortgages are allowed to bemodified and the homes are kept out of foreclosure?
Besides the fact that home values adjacent to foreclosed properties decrease in value drastically.
interest rates won't go up until money becomes available.
when will money become available by using the 'getting the hell out' theory?
Just poking holes in your theories.
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 09:00 PM
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using your rationale..

lets say we allow all the loans to default, thereby making banks land owners/homeowners.
They MAY probably get 50% of the value from the loan, if, the can sell them at all..
Is that better than 80%+ interest if mortgages are allowed to bemodified and the homes are kept out of foreclosure?
Besides the fact that home values adjacent to foreclosed properties decrease in value drastically.
interest rates won't go up until money becomes available.
when will money become available by using the 'getting the hell out' theory?
Just poking holes in your theories.
Nice try, but there are no holes yet. Who is "we" and what are doing messing around in my mortgage when all I want is to be out of it?

We went thru this in the 1980s. There were a very large number of foreclosures of FHA and VA properties due to the failure of many S&Ls. HUD formed a unit that was responsible for disposing of the homes. There were no efforts to prevent foreclosures and within a few years all the homes were reabsorbed into the market place. I still have a deed signed by the then HUD secretary, Jack kemp. The house is long gone having generated 9 years of positive cash flow and a healthy capital gain at sale.

There are very few new problems and liberals need to develop a better sense of history.

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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
If you note, Bernanke and Geithner are not putting a timetable on when things will be over.

To say "It will be shorter without" has no merit. And that is the point you are trying to avoid.


Plus, a safety net IS a stop of a slide. That is its function, whether in finance or a circus.
There is no timetable but government intervention will lengthen the downturn given that the crisis will IMO end up in the same manner regardless of what the government tries in the interim. Bernanke is inventing new solutions as he goes, this has been true since Bear Stearns blew up. His only guideline is the 30's so we will not go down the same path, but IMO we will end up in the same destination.

Safety net is for people in completely dire straits, and no, being delinquent on a mortgage payment does not count.
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-05-2009, 09:52 PM
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There is no proof. your right how about commonsense if there is no proof don't spend it
I am sure that sentence made sense in your head.

There is no proof it will be shorter if NO money is spent. There is history to show what happens when there is a complete crash and burn. And it is not a nice soft cushy landing that lasts six months then everything is OK.

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