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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-24-2009, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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Peres: EU sympathy for Hamas diminishes chances of peace

Last update - 14:17 24/02/2009
Peres: EU sympathy for Hamas diminishes chances of peace
By Haaretz Service

President Shimon Peres on Tuesday told Hans-Gert Pottering, the president of the European parliament, that European sympathy for Hamas is diminishing the chances of achieving Israeli-Palestinian peace.

Peres said Europe and the international community are harming the peace effort by expressing understanding for the situation in Gaza, which, he said, was essentially expressing understanding for Hamas' terror.

Pottering, who is also president of the Euro-Mediterranean Parliamentary Assembly, was in Israel as part of a fact-finding mission to the Middle East and to contribute to the re-launch of the stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

Peres also said the Palestinian Islamist group uses its own people as human shields in order to advance its interests. Israel is fighting and will continue to fight relentlessly against terror, but at the same time does not and will not refrain from allowing the flow of food and medicine into Gaza, he added.

The senior European Union official, for his part, told Peres that there is great concern for the humanitarian situation in Gaza, adding that the United Nations had reported a shortage of food and medicine in the Hamas-ruled territory.

Prior to the meeting, Pottering said that, "We believe in a peaceful and lasting solution for the Middle East made under the auspices of the United Nations and based on a two-state solution. We have to help the people of Gaza by opening the borders, while preventing Hamas from arming again."

"We are in favor of peace and resolutely against war and terrorism. This is our message and it will be transmitted to all partners in the region," he concluded.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-24-2009, 01:56 PM
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I can't see how a president equates "expressing understanding for the situation in Gaza" to "expressing understanding for Hamas' terror". If Peres wants to put an end to EU's sympathy for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, he can try to open the borders for essential supplies. But no.. he wants to collectively punish Gazans, never hear a protest from Gaza or elsewhere and would definitely like some praise for his states 'fight against terror'.

And what's with the proposed peace that we only hear of while everything on the ground is going in the other direction??

Human shields nonsense over and over again. Was he trying to justify the bombing of schools, hospitals, homes, mosques and previously beaches and the unusually high casualties among civilians?? Where's Peres when the IDF uses Palestinians as human shields and Israeli leaders legitimize this practice??

Balatah R.C.: Kids Used as Human Shields in Balata Refugee Camp
Palestinians as Israeli Human Sheilds: BBC: Palestinian boys used as a human shield during an Israeli operation in Nablus
Zionist Quotes: Collection of quotations from Israeli leaders legitimizing targeting civilians.

If Peres and the Israeli leadership in general genuinely want a peaceful solution "..made under the auspices of the United Nations and based on a two-state solution", then they should consider Hamas' offer of a long-term truce provided Israel complies to UN resolution 242. Hadn't the President heard of that offer before or hadn't he heard of the UN resolutions??
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-24-2009, 02:16 PM
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Sorry, Tahloub. There is no moral equivalence. You can't point to one bad behavior to excuse another. Israelis are not saints and Hamas clearly does not have the best interest of it's people in mind.

Also, before you can even think of applying a new resolution you need to hold the Palis accountable for all of the other resolutions and agreements that they unilaterally violated. It doesn't matter what the agreements were. There just is no trust that the Palis will ever adhere to anything. Their track record is appalling. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-25-2009, 01:20 AM
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I was pointing to the flaws in Peres' logic, if he has any. He can't tolerate even empty sympathy words from the EU towards Israel's victims, the civilians mind you not Hamas fighters. So, he resorts to the typical nonsense we're used to hearing from Israeli officials. What does the alleged use of human shields do with the thousands of injured without enough medicine and the tens of thousands of homeless with no roof (thanks to Israel's bombings)?? It's just an attempt to distract from Israel's responsibility in the ever worsening human situation in Gaza Strip.

What the humanitarian crisis in Gaza needs is to be addressed with immediate opening of crossings and normal flow of goods not a moral lecture on peace and Hamas tactics.

YouTube - Israel Leaders lies and the truth ??? ?????? ????????? ?? ???????
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-25-2009, 08:20 AM
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Sorry, Tahloube. No sympathy for people who will not behave. No sympathy for people who will not assimilate into civilized society. Containment is the only safe and humane answer to a terrorist state. Left to thier own means they will soon become another Afghanistan. If you think they are in bad shape now, just let them run wild and watch both Israel and Egypt completly shut all commerce including power and water. They have no industry, no natural resources, no brain trust. The majority of higher educated people have become refugees in other lands - the majority of which are Christian. It's a very sorry situation for the majority of innocent people who live in Gaza.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-25-2009, 09:17 AM
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Sorry, Stuantle, but it's not up to you to decide on behalf of the EU as for whom they can sympathize. You sure can decide for yourself, though. Oh, and you should have no sympathy to Israelis who are also "people who will not behave" and "who will not assimilate into civilized society". You see, they lived in civilized societies for centuries on end but failed to assimilate and had to build their state on the ruins of another people.. not my idea of good behaviour.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-25-2009, 09:30 AM
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Tahloube is correct, we have no business policing the world. All we get out of it is a worthless dollar, a crippling deficit, and bad reviews from the rest of the civilized world. Imagine the good that could have been done in the aftermath of 9/11 instead of just good ol' boy payback in a few connected companies.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-25-2009, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tahloube View Post
Sorry, Stuantle, but it's not up to you to decide on behalf of the EU as for whom they can sympathize. You sure can decide for yourself, though. Oh, and you should have no sympathy to Israelis who are also "people who will not behave" and "who will not assimilate into civilized society". You see, they lived in civilized societies for centuries on end but failed to assimilate and had to build their state on the ruins of another people.. not my idea of good behaviour.
Ruins of another people? I have news for you. History did not start in the seventh century. That, my friend is pure muslim bullshit.

Also, I care less about the EU and I hope the US never gets physically involved in the issue. Like I said. The Palistinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Behave like a terrorist and you will get treated as such.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 02:42 AM
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Seventh century? The people I was referring to are the Palestinians of the twentieth century on whose ruins the state of Israel was declared. Why do you have to dig deep in the past when the dispute is about a crime committed in the present?? Isee.. You want to quote the Torah, right??

You can care or not care about the EU, Israel, the whole middle east but what you can't is deny that the US is actually involved and physically too. Remember Iraq?

Israel was built on terrorism. Its 'politicians' are members of terrorist organizations and the younger ones are descendants of terrorist organizations members. You may not know this or you chose to ignore it but it's still a fact. Resistance, OTOH, is only called terrorism by the occupation and its allies.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quoting the Torah? The Torah is the first five books of the Bible. I would be more inclined to speak from the New Testament. And to correct you, Islam was built on the ruins of the Temple in Jerusalem, not the other way around. If Israel truly wanted you not to exist it would have demolished the Dome and rebuilt the Temple (I'm sure you can find a few crazy Jews and Christians who would like that, though). What point in time would you choose in order to declare the rightful inhabitants? If we go back before Mohammed, you would definately lose. You pick the time and tell me why. If you can make a valid argument backed by facts I may come over to your side.

Israel was not built on terroism, it was a division of land by Churchill. Areas sympathetic to the enemy were divided up and consolidated after WWII. This was all over the ME and Europe with the Russians participating in the consolidation of eastern Europe. Like it or not, due to war, that is the way it has been since the beginning of time. You have been brainwashed by the nefarious deathcult you live in. Just as you may deny the Holocaust and believe that terroism is just freedom fighting, you also buy into the fact that western civilization is aligned against you. It is not. It wants you to join the modern world as a full partner. Believe it or not, Israel does too.

Palestine has an anger that is revenge driven. I have no idea how to do it, but Palestine must find a way to be a strong economic partner with Israel an yet be a peaceful soverign nation. Palestine cannot exist without Israel, but Israel does not need Palestine for anything except labor. The world is asking for a huge change in mindset for the Palestinians. So much hatred has built up over several generations and they may not be able to be overcome it as it has consumed their lives. Only with economic success will the hatred subside. Until economic success is achieved, they will feel enslaved and subdued. Yes, I can see your perspective. You see Israel and the west as the ones controlling your destiny in the same way that the Russians saw Stalin and the Iraquis saw Saddam. The evil oppressor controlling their every day life.

I hate to stereotype, but you are spouting the usual victim hate rhetoric that is prevalent in your area of the Muslim world. I don't know you personally, but from your writings I think more of you than that. You can tell a lot about a man from the way he writes. Sometimes you can even see him speaking in your mind.

Israel is acting the way it is because they have wasted their time and energy for 60 years on the Palistinians (yes, I will stand by your side and say that Israel has done stupid things too). Virtually every olive branch has been met with a sword. They have proven that they perceive the olive branch as weakness and they only will respect the strongman. Read the sura's I posted (I mean re-read. I'm sure you have read the Koran.). Violence and a revenge based victim mentality has been engrained in Muslims for 1400 years and has suppressed you enough to keep you from joining the modern world. That may have been fine for warring tribes, but it has no place in the modern world. A change in perspective is centuries overdue. Note that I say a change in Perspective, not a change in the wording of the Koran for that would invalidate the entire book. Putting the hatred behind and moving forward would be the toughest thing to do in your life. It took centuries for the western world to reject and put the Crusades behind us. Nothing happens overnight. Luther changed Christanity into the modern religion it is today and it is still evolving. More and more Christians are de-evolving (if that is a word?) and going back to the basic tenents of the faith by believing in salvation through faith. Tear away the rules that man imposed on the religion over the centuries you have a very beautiful and simple message on how to gain favor with God. I do not answer to man, I answer to a very loving God.

I fully believe the Old Testament with it's Laws was necessary for man until he gained intellect and built strong societies. An atheist would look at this as mental evolution. At this point God felt man could hold more and the New Testament documents this. Both the OT and NT must be used together to gain understanding of what God expects from us. The OT proves the Gospel to be correct many times over. Mohammed thought enough of the OT to incorporate some of it into the Koran. After all, through Abraham we are truly brothers.

Tahloub, I don't see you as a bad person and would never, ever preach conversion. I do not denigrate the man, just the mindset. I would welcome any discussion or questions you may have concerning a western Christian perspective.
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