Kyrgyzstan evicts the United States - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Kyrgyzstan evicts the United States

What a great job.

Kyrgyzstan cuts key U.S. lifeline to fight Afghan war -

WASHINGTON, Feb. 19 (UPI) -- The Central Asian nation of Kyrgyzstan has cut America's most important supply lifeline into Afghanistan right after President Barack Obama ordered 17,000 more U.S. troops to be sent there.

The Parliament of Kyrgyzstan voted Thursday to evict the United States from Manas Air Base outside the capital Bishkek. The United States will have 180 days to evacuate the facilities and lose its key refueling base to supply forces in Afghanistan.

This pending expulsion of U.S. forces from Manas is a huge humiliation for the United States in Central Asia and marks a sea change in Russia's attitude toward the long-running U.S. and NATO war against the Taliban and al-Qaida in Afghanistan. It also serves notice that Obama's "surge" policy in Afghanistan is in dire trouble even as he launches it.

The U.S. armed forces have enjoyed impregnable, secure air and sea supply lines in fighting wars around the world for almost 70 years since their involvement in World War II. So the idea that land and air supply lines could be threatened or cut is completely unthinkable to Pentagon generals and administration or think-tank armchair strategists alike.

But from the annihilation of the Athenian army in the famous Syracuse campaign more than 2,400 years ago to the destruction of the German Sixth Army and Fourth Panzer Army at Stalingrad in the winter of 1942-43, cutting off an army's supply lines has marked the death knell of scores of thousands of soldiers or more every time it has happened.

The 50,000 -- soon to be 67,000 -- U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan are still getting their supplies, and Manas should stay open for another six months or so. But once it closes, those supplies will have to come through Pakistani land roads that run through some of the most mountainous terrain in the world, or they will have to be delivered by air in large, potentially vulnerable and easily detectable supply aircraft.

The U.S. Air Force has the finest military airlift capacity in the world, but none of its Boeing C-17 Globemasters or shorter-range Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules air transports have stealth capability. And if Pakistan fell into hostile hands, no U.S. aircraft combat fighters operating from bases in the Persian Gulf or from U.S. aircraft carriers in the Indian Ocean would have the numbers or range to offer comprehensive protection against hostile Pakistan air force attacks, using the very F-16 fighters that the Bush administration supplied to Pakistan.

That nightmare scenario seemed unimaginable until this week. But Pakistan's weak and ineffectual government led by President Asif Ali Zardari has just signed an agreement with pro-Taliban forces that already control almost all of the sparsely populated but enormous North-West Frontier province allowing them to enforce Shariah Islamic law throughout that territory. President Obama has been reported to have privately approved the agreement in the hope that it will help stabilize Pakistan.

In 2005 the United States was expelled from its other key strategic foothold in Central Asia, Karshi-Khanabad Air Base in Uzbekistan, known as K-2. Without either K-2 or Manas, Obama now faces the quandary that the more troops he sends to Afghanistan to prove his determination to fight there, the greater the problems the U.S. Air Force will have in supplying them.

The land route through Pakistan is already extremely unreliable. The Khyber Pass -- a historic frontier for generations of the British Empire in India against the uncontrollable chaos of Afghanistan beyond it -- is now being periodically shut down by Taliban attacks on U.S.-organized supply convoys to American and NATO forces in Kabul and elsewhere in Afghanistan. That makes the air route crucial.

Even if the U.S. Air Force can supply U.S. forces in Afghanistan indefinitely, the cost would be prohibitive to the cash-strapped U.S. government. Also, the wear and tear on the U.S. transport aircraft involved will be enormous, and the USAF will be robbed of its ability to rapidly deploy troops to other trouble spots around the world while the airlift is going on.

The Air Force already has its hands full supplying the more than 150,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, and once they withdraw, Iraq will face the threat of major insurgency and possible rapid takeover by Iranian-backed extreme Islamists who are determined to proclaim their new caliphate in Baghdad.

U.S. policymakers owed Russia's former president and current prime minister, Vladimir Putin, much more than they usually publicly acknowledged in his support for U.S. military operations in Afghanistan from November 2001 to the present. But now Russia has decisively moved to cut the remaining supply lines to U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan. The Kremlin offered Kyrgyzstan $150 million in immediate aid and $2 billion more in credits right before Bishkek moved to evict the United States from Manas. Yet Russia is suffering a huge financial crisis, and the ruble has been plummeting in value against the far-from-strong dollar.

In other words, the United States can realistically expect no help whatsoever from Russia in opposing the Taliban and al-Qaida in Afghanistan. The Russians look ready to sit back happily with their arms folded and watch the United States flounder. Even if they offer a supply route, it is bound to come with expensive strings attached -- probably demands for the immediate cancellation of U.S. plans to build any ballistic missile bases in Poland and the Czech Republic to protect the U.S. Eastern Seaboard against a possible Iranian nuclear-missile attack.

The closure of Manas also comes as NATO defense ministers gather in Krakow, Poland, for a regular summit meeting. Obama wants his European allies to boost their forces in Afghanistan, but his prospects for getting this are not bright.

Obama, indeed, might do better to scrap his plans to boost U.S. forces in Afghanistan and slow down his plans to pull them from Iraq, making those moves contingent on real concessions from Iran. As things stand, the growing Afghan war crisis could make even Iraq look easy by comparison.
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 12:15 PM
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When Subic Bay closed under pressure the locals rejoiced until they noticed that the lease payments also left along with several thousand jobs. Politicians were demanding that the US should leave but keep the cash flowing. Sorry........
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 12:16 PM
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The news source you cite, UPI, was once a reputable news source, but sadly to say, it fell on hard times, and is now owned and operated by one of America's largest groups of right wing kooks, "The Moonies":

United Press International - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States has ample military assets in the Middle East and from Diego Garcia from which to supply US Armies, and if an invasion of Pakistan becomes warranted, I am sure the Indians will let us borrow a base or two. But in truth, this is simply an extortion ploy, as soon as we come up with the money, it will be over, so calm down. Perhaps you should read the leading press, none of them are even mentioning this story, not even your precious Faux News.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 01:09 PM
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ftl, reuters is and nyt as well.

but yes, america has fallen into the same trap as the russians back int he 80s so i can see them just sitting back and having a laugh at USA. the empire is definitely crumbling.

in political asylum
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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuantle View Post
When Subic Bay closed under pressure the locals rejoiced until they noticed that the lease payments also left along with several thousand jobs. Politicians were demanding that the US should leave but keep the cash flowing. Sorry........
Damn those locals and their wanting a free ride...

The Philippines: Worse Case Scenario

Clark Air Base: Once the largest U.S. military base in the world – about the size of Singapore – Clark was abandoned in 1991 and settled by refugees from the Mt. Pinatubo eruption. The site is currently being developed for commercial purposes with hopes of attracting foreign investors. American firms already include Federal Express and America on Line.

The Mt. Pinatubo refugees found wells poisoned by insecticides, residues of Air Force chemicals and other hazardous waste. Pollutants include mercury, nitrates, propylbenzene (a fuel byproduct), the insecticide dieldrin, lead and coliform bacteria.

Asbestos and industrial waste had been buried in landfills. Tens of thousands of gallons of petroleum had leaked from underground tanks.

Hundreds of gallons of pentachlorophenol (PC-Ps) and polychlorinated byphenyls (PCBs) had been spilled or dumped. Lead and other toxic metals had been dumped in landfills. Chemicals had been flushed into the ground during fire-fighter training.

These toxic wastes, seeping into groundwater and aquifers, lie in the heart of one of the most agriculturally rich areas of the Philippines.

Farm-raised fish and prawns and an estimated 20 percent of the nation's rice production are among the water-dependant crops raised here. Contamination of these food supplies could lead to wide-spread health problems and massive economic and population dislocation.

Subic Bay Naval Base: When the U.S. Navy abandoned its sprawling base in 1992, it identified 56 potentially contaminated sites and training ranges. Some of the Navy's legacy:

* 3.75 million gallons of raw sewage pumped daily into the bay.
* Toxic waste from storage and destruction of excess bombs and ammunition either poured into a local stream or dumped in a landfill.
* Drums of cyanide emptied into a landfill, according to a worker who said he was ordered to do the dumping.

Estimated cost of cleaning up both Clark and Subic Bay bases: $1 billion. The U.S. says its treaties with the Philippines exempt it from clean-up costs. So far, the U.S. has even failed to respond to calls for technical assistance and more detailed documents to help the Philippines identify polluted sites.

Military Toxic Waste
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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 02:01 PM
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The threats to close Manas Air Base have been going on for a while [the lease ran out a bit back].

My bet is the poppy distributors provided a better deal to the Russian mob/government for distribution to Western Europe.


Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 02:23 PM
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Get Hillary over to Tehran! That jernt would be ideal.


"...pour out of one vessel into another; and as those old Romans robbed all the cities in the world, we skim the cream of other men's wits, pick the choice flowers of their tilled gardens to set our own sterile plots."
-a Richard Burton

Last edited by A264172; 02-19-2009 at 02:47 PM.
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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 02:42 PM
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No doubt we were inconsiderate pigs. Now look at the average Pinoy mindset for the non military items you listed. Sewage treatment was on par with the status quo of the country. Much of SE Asia is a sewage and toxic waste dump. The delta from Sacramento to SF is a pristine waterhole in comparison to anything over there and I never ate any fish I pulled out of there. Policies have changed somewhat and we no longer have the "when in Rome" attitude. We are much better stewards of the environment and much better guests. There is little to no chance we will clean up all the warzone mess in Iraq (depleted u, lead, unexploded ord.) But we have been good neighbors to the areas around the current bases (schools, shops, bridges, mosques).

The Phillipines had a good deal and they blew it. We had a contract, they threw us out, we left in record time, we don't owe them the time of day.

I don't quite understand the item on Clark since it and the town around it were wiped out by the volcano. Good friends showed me pictures of the church steeple on the edge of the base sticking out from the ash. They walked for hours and couldn't figure out where the house they grew up in was in all the mess.

I agree with Bear. The Russians and the drug lords have a stake in our leaving Kyrgystan. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union the Russians have become whores to the almighty dollar.
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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuantle View Post
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union the Russians have become whores to the almighty dollar.
Second only to us.
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by p100 View Post
Second only to us.
America is full of wasting hate mongering assholes, why does anyone live here?
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