THE PATH TO EXTREMISM The Islamist Mindset 'Is Very Comfortable' - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
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THE PATH TO EXTREMISM The Islamist Mindset 'Is Very Comfortable'

SPIEGEL ONLINE

02/17/2009 02:43 PM
THE PATH TO EXTREMISM
The Islamist Mindset 'Is Very Comfortable'

Ghaffar Hussain was once a radical Islamist with the group Hizb ut-Tahrir. Now he is part of the Quilliam Foundation, a British think tank seeking to combat extremism. He spoke with SPIEGEL ONLINE about the Islamist world view and the pleasant feeling of omniscience.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: As we speak, around three dozen German Islamists are supposedly living in terrorist training camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Some of them have radicalized very quickly, within months. You yourself were a radical Islamist at one time and are now an expert in the field. What is it that makes some young Muslims tick?

A young German Islamist in Waziristan.

A young German Islamist in Waziristan.
Hussain: Primarily they buy into a certain narrative, and a specific world view, which seems to be particularly appealing for young Muslims in Europe. Quite a few of them feel marginalized, they don't feel they fit into society and they can't connect with their parents' generation. So they look for something they can belong to and some of them feel very attracted by the Umma concept, the idea that all Muslims form a unity. This is then where your allegiance lies and nothing else matters. From there, they develop an urge to do something good, and then they are sometimes confronted with what I call shock tactics: graphic images of Muslim victims, for example. They reach the conclusion that they have to do something about it. Plus there is the scriptural side: They are being told that they have to fight, that fighting is a duty.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Some of those who have become radicalized have not been very succesful in their former lives. It's like they are losers who seek to transform themselves into winners...

Hussain: Yes, and the elite factor definitly plays a role as well. I have met many radical people who wouldn't want to discuss their ideas with someone knowledgable, because they knew they would not win that debate. But for them their mindset is very comfortable. They are the vanguard, everything makes sense for them. They have a network, a group of friends. It can be very attractive to suddenly be convinced that you alone now know what's really going on. You are a real Muslim, the others have been infiltrated by the West and are corrupted. Certainly you are better than your parents so you don't have to listen to them anymore.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: But to leave your country, join a terrorist organization and live in Waziristan with no prospect of ever returning to a normal life in the West is also a risk?

Hussain: Those types of people think that there is nothing worthwhile left for them to come back to. There are others of course who have families and prefer to live in the West and be armchair radicals...

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Like you, when you were a member of the Islamist organization Hizb ut-Tahrir?

Hussain: In a way, yes. I was a political activist, and Hizb ut-Tahrir didn't advocate that we join the battlefield.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: From your experience, once you really enter that Islamist ideology, how does it change you?

Hussain: It gives you moral and political certainty. Understanding geopolitics for a 15-year-old is very difficult -- but all of a sudden everything is very easy: Ah, this is why they are all fighting against us!

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Radicalization is a process. It's not like you are a moderate on Monday, but wake up on Tuesday as a would-be-terrorist. Can this process be stopped once it has started?

Hussain: Yes, the process can be stopped, if these people are exposed to alternative points of view before it's too late. Before they will only socialize with people who supply them with radical answers to the questions that drive them. Basically these people are looking for answers and they often find radical answers most convincing because they seem to explain everything. This is the point where they need to be confronted with information that contradicts the Islamist narrative. There's also a scriptural aspect to this: You have to show to them that Islam as such does not support many of the Islamists' arguments.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Generally, what role does religious knowledge play in the process of radicalization? A lot of jihadist leaders for example talk a lot about faith without having much in the way of a theological education. Even Osama Bin Laden and Aiman al-Zawahiri fall into that category.

Hussain: Religion is not what motivates people. They don't pick up the Koran and say: Ah, this is what I've got to do! They are motivated by politics. But when Islamists show their world view they always provide some scriptural justification. As a rule, 90 percent of their speeches are political, but they will also say: And the Koran supports this, and the Prophet supports this, so as to make the argument look Islamic.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: What were the main factors that made you turn away from radical Islamism?

Hussain: I managed to keep an open mind even when I was an activist for Hizb ut-Tahrir. That allowed me to analyze different perspectives. I also read a lot about history independently, I analysed politics independently and I kept speaking to Muslims who followed different ideas. So I had access to quite a wide variety of information which eventually made me realize that I was following a very narrow interpretation at best. But a lot of people won't expose themselves to all that, they feel too comfortable with their new truths and new friends.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Was this narrowness of interpretation decisive for you? Or was it also a matter of truth and historical accuracy?

Hussain: Some of what I used to believe was definitely false. Islamism is a modern idea, and it was influenced by European movements like Marxism and Socialism. Islamists reinterpret Muslim history according to their ideology. And that leads to a complete misreading of, for example, the Ottoman Empire's history.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: At the Quilliam Foundation you are looking at ways to counter radicalization. You also make use of religious authorities. How does that work?

Hussain: We will take up a specific issue and then we'll try to get respected scholars to take of a clear position in opposition. We have done this, for example, with suicide bombings or the concept that all Muslims must be united under one leadership. We want to show that what radicals believe is in fact a very narrow politically motivated religious standpoint that needs to be exposed for what it is. We don't want to unite everyone under one alternative idea, though.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: When the Quilliam Foundation was set up, as a think tank staffed with former radical Islamists, did you find it difficult to enter the public debate? Or was yours a voice that all sides were eager to listen to?

Hussain: It was actually quite easy to enter the public debate. People were definitely looking for new and original voices on this topic.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Since you started the project, have you actually managed to convince radical Islamists to break away from their groups and their ideology?

Hussain: Yes. We have individually spoken to people we knew and managed to take away between 30 and 40 from these organizations, some even from senior positions. We have also tried numerous times to engage these organizations in public debates with us, but they haven't accepted the offer. But I think we are on the right track. They are definitely not as confident anymore as they used to be.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: The Quilliam Foundtaion is unique in the sense that there are no comparable institutions outside the UK. Do you have plans to expand?

Hussain: On the long term, yes. First we want a solid base in Britain that will be a working model that we can then export to Europe and the US.

Interview conducted by Yassin Musharbash
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-18-2009, 08:02 AM
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Positive initiative, from within. Sounds like the beginning of a process many of us hope for since outsiders have proven totally incapable of generating a positive influence of any kind.

Thanks,

Jim
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-18-2009, 08:58 AM
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Very sad situation. A terrible loss of intellect that could be used positive things. There is little choice when they are told that what they are doing is commanded by Allah. My condemnation comes from their extremisim.

There is a distinct philosophy difference between Christianity and Islam when it comes to interpretation of the Bible and the Koran.

Christians:
The Bible is the inspired word of God written by man. It is not the direct word from the mouth of God.

Muslims:
The Koran is the direct word of Allah. No part of it can be challenged. Personal interpretation is not allowed.

Here lies the achilles heel of Islam. Prove one Surah wrong and it is blasphemy. The entire religion stands on the infallibility of the entire text of the Koran. If one word is wrong, then the entire religion becomes a fallicy. You are commanded to subdue the infidels and if you do not, then you are against Allah.

Black and white boolean logic. Sorry, I just cannot believe in an evil god. You can if you want to, just don't impose it on me or my family, please.
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Any God Will Do

I always liked the title, and this particular Dallas novelist (RIP).

Any God Will Do
(1966)
A novel by
Richard Condon
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuantle View Post
...

Muslims:
The Koran is the direct word of Allah. No part of it can be challenged. Personal interpretation is not allowed.


First sentence: True
Second sentence: True
Third sentence: False. Anyone who gains proper education can do interpretation. There are dozens already and there are many topics that are under debate.

Quote:
Here lies the achilles heel of Islam. Prove one Surah wrong and it is blasphemy. The entire religion stands on the infallibility of the entire text of the Koran. If one word is wrong, then the entire religion becomes a fallicy. You are commanded to subdue the infidels and if you do not, then you are against Allah.
You can prove or disprove a Surah. But where did you get the statement in bold from??

Quote:
Black and white boolean logic. Sorry, I just cannot believe in an evil god. You can if you want to, just don't impose it on me or my family, please.
Nobody has the right to impose anything on you or on others. "Let there be no compulsion in religion", alBaqarah 2: 256.
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Originally Posted by Tahloube View Post
First sentence: True
Second sentence: True
Third sentence: False. Anyone who gains proper education can do interpretation. There are dozens already and there are many topics that are under debate.

You can prove or disprove a Surah. But where did you get the statement in bold from??

Nobody has the right to impose anything on you or on others. "Let there be no compulsion in religion", alBaqarah 2: 256.

I am sorry, Tahloube, but your answers while not false, are misleading. You are voicing the view of moderation and not the majority that I was speaking of.

1. I have a personally tough time with your statement that you have to be educated properly to debate. I know it is the rule you are required to follow, however, the least of us should be able to question in order to gain knowlege. The Christian church was forever changed by Guttenberg and Luther in the 1500's. Prior to that, the common man was outside looking in and separate from God.

2. I will re-read the Koran and tell you where I found this. I'll search for the exact phrase "let them be subdued". It has to do with non-believers (infidels) living in lands controlled by Mulims and how they are relegated to the status of dhimmi. It is a caste system of born believers, converts, and non-believers. I am sure of my words.

3. "Let there be no compulsion in religion" is a valid Koranic quote, however, it is contradicted by #2.


Now for the big statement:

NOBODY has to answer to me for what they believe or why they believe it. They have to answer to GOD.

Also, not to demean anyone on this board, but this may be too heavy of a subject for this venue.
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Qur’an:9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”
Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”
Qur’an:9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.”
Ishaq:300 “I am fighting in Allah’s service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah’s war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good.”
Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”
Qur’an:8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”
Ishaq:326 “Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth.”
Bukhari:V4B52N63 “A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, ‘Allah’s Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?’ The Prophet said, ‘Embrace Islam first and then fight.’ So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah’s Apostle said, ‘A Little work, but a great reward.’”
Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’”
Muslim:C34B20N4668 “The Messenger said: ‘Anybody who equips a warrior going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights. And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one who actually fights.”
Qur’an:9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah’s Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place.”
Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”
Qur’an:8:72 “Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them—these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so.” [Another translation reads:] “You are only called to protect Muslims who fight.”
Muslim:C9B1N31 “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought.”
Bukhari:V9B84N59 “Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.’”
Qur’an:8:73 “The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah’s religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid—these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise).”
Tabari IX:69 “Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us.”
Qur’an:48:16 “Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: ‘You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture.”
Qur’an:48:22 “If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah.”
Qur’an:47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”
Qur’an:47:31 “And We shall try you until We know those among you who are the fighters.”
Tabari VI:138 “Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah had permitted fighting.”
Tabari VI:139 “Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse ‘And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.’”
Qur’an:9:19 “Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in Allah’s Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah.”
Ishaq:550 “The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling.”
Qur’an:5:94 “Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment.”
Ishaq:578 “Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet’s fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory.”
Tabari IX:22 “The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them bitterly.”
Tabari IX:25 “By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta’if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant.”
Tabari IX:82 “The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.”
Tabari IX:88 “Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and became a good Muslim. Allah’s Apostle invested Azdi with the authority over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger’s command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew, setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to inflict a heavy loss on them.”
Ishaq:530 “Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make enemies of friends.”
Muslim:C9B1N29 “Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu Bakr said: ‘I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they used to pay if they withhold it now.’ Allah had justified fighting against those who refused to pay Zakat.”
Muslim:C9B1N33 “The Prophet said: ‘I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.’”
Muslim:C10B1N176 “Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said: ‘There is no god but Allah,’ but I attacked him with a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle about this. The Messenger said: ‘Did he profess “There is no god but Allah,” and even then you killed him?’ I said: ‘He made a profession out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.’ The Prophet said: ‘Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had professed truly or not?’”
Muslim:C20B1N4597 “The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: ‘There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.’”
Muslim:C28B20N4628 “Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word; Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home with his reward and booty.”
Muslim:C28B20N4629 “The Messenger said: ‘One who is wounded in the Way of Allah—and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way—will appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color (of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.’”
Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 “The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: ‘Who is the best of men?’ He replied: ‘A man who fights staking his life and spending his wealth in Allah’s Cause.’”
Muslim:C42B20N4684 “A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said: ‘Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?’ The Messenger of Allah said: ‘Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the Way of Allah.’”
Muslim:C53B20N4717 “The Prophet said: ‘This religion will continue to exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight for its protection until the Hour is established.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N288 “I witnessed a scene that was dearer to me than anything I had ever seen. Aswad came to the Prophet while Muhammad was urging the Muslims to fight the pagans. He said, ‘We shall fight on your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.’ I saw the face of the Prophet getting bright with happiness, for that saying delighted him.”
Bukhari:V5B59N290 “The believers who did not join the Ghazwa [Islamic raid or invasion] and those who fought are not equal in reward.”
Qur’an:2:193 “Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers.”
Qur’an:2:217 “They question you concerning fighting in the sacred month. Say: ‘Fighting therein is a grave (matter); but to prevent access to Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, to expel its members, and polytheism are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they make you renegades from your religion. If any of you turn back and die in unbelief, your works will be lost and you will go to Hell. Surely those who believe and leave their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause have the hope of Allah’s mercy.”
Qur’an:2:244 “Fight in Allah’s Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all.”
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