13LL propagandistic distortions - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
Wow. Looks like the voters should have voted Republican. I wonder why they didn't, given this evidence from five years ago? Was it kept secret during the election? It wasn't? And the Republicans went down to their worst defeat in forty years anyway? How could that happen?
FFS Obama won, not the Dems or any other party; Obama did when he won over the INDEPENDENTS and 90+ percent of a significant group's votes.

These other characters such as Frank and Peloosi being in our current government and running amuck is precisely why we need to be on their tails and exposing the shit.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Obama got the votes, the party is just an ancillary beneficiary. Moderate conservatives who were on the fence weren't throwing down because they like Frank and Pelosi. There were notable differences between Obama's views and the traditional liberal mantra of the party during the race. Not so much now. I'm willing to give the guy a fair chance. But, he's going to have to assert his power to reign in the wackos with dubious agendas on both sides of the aisle. I really think he wants to effect change, but he's fighting a war on two fronts. Unfortunately, what is best for America and its people generally contradicts the best interests of elected officials. They're going to try to keep this guy chasing his tail for four years. IMO that is the crux of the issue. At this point, support for the new POTUS is waning as hard line conservatives pick apart his first couple of weeks in office. It wouldn't surprise me if Pelosi and Frank et al. were scripting Limbaugh's propaganda. Weakening Obama serves them well. IMO OUR, WE, THE PEEPS, best instrument for change right now is our President. Not democrat, republican, liberal, conservative-just POTUS. Why not get behind him with unwavering support, the little power the American people have left, in an effort to help him thwart this bureaucracy and get down to the business of righting the ship? Set aside your partisan totalitarianism long enough to ask if not him, then who will lead? I don't think you'll like the answer.
Well said.
However, the dude has quickly transformed his message from a "Yes,we can" to "STFU and do as Peloosi says; oh, I am really a 13LL".
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mlfun View Post
FFS Obama won, not the Dems or any other party; Obama did when he won over the INDEPENDENTS and 90+ percent of a significant group's votes.

These other characters such as Frank and Peloosi being in our current government and running amuck is precisely why we need to be on their tails and exposing the shit.
Sure, anything you say. But one question, which party won Congress, and how does the "Dems didn't win" work with the answer to that? Or maybe your pal can tell me?


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Sure, anything you say. But one question, which party won Congress, and how does the "Dems didn't win" work with the answer to that? Or maybe your pal can tell me?
Coat tails.

Here are some parallels from Japan's lessons.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/off-...ml#post3303545

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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/wo...ef=todayspaper

Among ordinary Japanese, the spending is widely disparaged for having turned the nation into a public-works-based welfare state and making regional economies dependent on Tokyo for jobs. Much of the blame has fallen on the Liberal Democratic Party, which has long used government spending to grease rural vote-buying machines that help keep the party in power.
...
Dr. Ihori of the University of Tokyo did a survey of public works in the 1990s, concluding that the spending created almost no additional economic growth. Instead of spreading beneficial ripple effects across the economy, he found that the spending actually led to declines in business investment by driving out private investors. He also said job creation was too narrowly focused in the construction industry in rural areas to give much benefit to the overall economy.

He agreed with other critics that the 1990s stimulus failed because too much of it went to roads and bridges, overbuilding this already heavily developed nation. Critics also said decisions on how to spend the money were made behind closed doors by bureaucrats, politicians and the construction industry, and often reflected political considerations more than economic. Dr. Ihori said
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 12:57 PM
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What's a 13LL? or 13% for that matter?
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 01:16 PM
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Multimilfs weak assed rejoinder to the previously coined Shrinking28....
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mlfun View Post
Well said.
However, the dude has quickly transformed his message from a "Yes,we can" to "STFU and do as Peloosi says; oh, I am really a 13LL".
I'm not convinced he has much respect for the old school dems. I think his recent attitude reflects his frustration toward the politicization of the stimulus plan. He's trying to get something accomplished while the left pounds it full of worthless pork, and the right acts like its the first time they've heard that the economy might need some help. The republicans are acting as if they weren't party to the first several hundred billion dollar debacle. If the government had never meddled with the market, republicans might have an argument for tax incentives and allowing the market to work things out. But, it was manipulated. They had a hand in it too. All the first round of bailouts did was give us enough rope to hang ourselves. So, if we don't follow through now with something massive and meaningful, we're sunk. Tax incentives for corporations aren't going to impede foreclosures. People are too far behind now to catch up. Providing them with a $20 an hour job a year from now isn't going to help their current situation. We don't need massive amounts of spending on subsidized busy work either. What everyone needs right now is a little breathing room to get back on their feet. Not a complete governmental takeover of every bank, business and residence in the country. IMO the real solution lies neither left nor right, but in the middle. Some tax incentives that business can rely on long term so that they have risk capital, and some subsidization of corporate and individual debt to help keep the wolves away from the door while businesses and households evaluate their options. I think this could all be accomplished without writing a 900 billion dollar check, and for far less in the long run. But again, that's middle ground. It'll be hard for either party to take credit or place blame if that path is chosen.

"Truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self evident"-Arthur Schopenhauer
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 02:37 PM
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Poor defense of Mr. Frank, there, Bear. Is that what you were trying to do?
I figure as a minority Senator, he really was not in a position to do that much, nor do all the things for which he has been blamed. I just would like to see the prospective leveled. Then I don't think he will require any defense at all.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 02:42 PM
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Nice try. But that was simple his speech. What was the Republican Response? What was the Republican OUTRAGE to this onrushing calamity? All we ever see is this same tape over and over from ONE minority Senator in a Congress that was Majority Republican with a Republican President. Yet I still don't see all the bills that THEY submitted to fix the perceived problem. I don't see all the press conferences where THEY went to war against this renegade Democrat that apparently held the entire Republican Congress at bay.

I hope you are not a waitress, 'cause you brought the wrong order.

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 02:45 PM
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Multimilfs weak assed rejoinder to the previously coined Shrinking28....
But remember, the Shrinking28 are merging into the ODDS.

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