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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 12:57 AM
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Part of the reason your business signed with IBM was the price of the contract. And that contract was based on X amount of offshore services. You MIGHT have been able to get an IBM contract with US only labor but I really doubt it now.

Much like folks buying at Walmart, IBM had to start lowering the cost of its products and services to compete with other global service providers and the only way to do that was to offshore much of their labor. You want inexpensive services, sometimes you get what you pay for.

I have fought that argument in IBMs boardroom to the point that there are three Directors and two VPs that will no longer be in the room with me. They need my work but hate my lectures when I show them WHY we are re-doing work for the third time and WHY clients are demanding money back.

At some point I will just not be asked back but the alternative would be to back down and not do what I think is right. And a job isn't worth that sacrifice.
This was IGF, not IGS...when we have problems, an American fixes them. Kinda funny.

And I've talked to plenty of peers who were IBM customers. They'd rather pay more for better quality and fewer problems than keep dealing with IBM. Which is why Dell is kicking their ass up and down the street, why Lenovo is giving up on North America, etc. It's not all about bottom-line dollars, it's about value, and the more IBM has moved toward off-shoring work, the more evident it becomes that they A) write the value equation heavy on the pricing side, and B) lack the leadership and operational discipline to deliver meaningful value.

By the way, there's a TON of money that can find American pockets and create American jobs in the form of IT related services. No need for that to go offshore. People will buy what is available to them. It's UNBELIEVABLY easy to scapegoat Indian development and Brazilian project managers, etc., as being unable to deliver "world class service", and explain away any price concerns thusly. I happily outsource some network projects at $150/hr to a very small boutique service provider, because the quality is top-notch. IBM could come to me saying they'll do the same thing at $50/hr, and I'd tell them to get fucked. It doesn't matter how cheap something is if it doesn't work right. I'm not alone. Lots of IT managers have had terrible, terrible experience with IGS, at big firms who gave IBM the keys to everything. They feel like they got completely screwed. Those stories are everywhere.

Companies will pay more, because it's cheaper than going out of business or starting their own IT departments over from scratch again. First person to to establish a base camp here, wins.

Last edited by Qubes; 02-08-2009 at 01:03 AM.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 02:33 AM
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Man, I'd move to India in a heartbeat, buy a sitar, start smoking hash and get fired, then I'd start up a race circuit. The India 500. I've got it all planned out.

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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 02:38 AM
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Man, I'd move to India in a heartbeat, buy a sitar, start smoking hash and get fired, then I'd start up a race circuit. The India 500. I've got it all planned out.
You gotta think bigger than that.

Heroin grows on trees in India.

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ils peuvent aller se faire mettre

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 02:56 AM
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You gotta think bigger than that.

Heroin grows on trees in India.
Picking heroin is beneath me, sir.

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 05:09 AM
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You gotta think bigger than that.

Heroin grows on trees in India.
You mean opium.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 05:33 AM
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You mean opium.
It is plentiful....and cheap....hence the coined phrase.

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ils peuvent aller se faire mettre

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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 05:35 AM
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Picking heroin is beneath me, sir.
Details. Details.

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ils peuvent aller se faire mettre

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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 05:50 AM
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If you've never been to India, you should plan a trip. If for no other reason than to learn the correct meaning of the word "poor", or "undernourished", or "god_forsaken", or "lost" or "hopeless", or a thousand other adjectives. Believe me, unless you're into feeling sorry for your fellow man, you do not want to step foot inside the borders of India. As an example, India is the largest importer of gold in the world, yet the average citizen lives in such squalor that it's almost incomprehensible, and for their citizenry, their caste system allows virtually no upward mobility. In my opinion, it's not a place that Americans would find welcoming.

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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 07:21 AM
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Man, I'd move to India in a heartbeat, buy a sitar, start smoking hash and get fired, then I'd start up a race circuit. The India 500. I've got it all planned out.
If they upholstered their cars with woven, pile free carpet, you could call it...



The India Nap-less 500.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-08-2009, 07:23 AM
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Man, I'd move to India in a heartbeat, buy a sitar, start smoking hash and get fired, then I'd start up a race circuit. The India 500. I've got it all planned out.
These guys would jump all over that.
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