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post #41 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Mc,
Fit right in with the current administration, wouldn't he!
Not at all. Unlike the GOP the Dems are cutting the folks with questions loose. The GOP seems to like to keep them on as role models.

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post #42 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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All this fuss about Joe the Plumber is nearly as funny as Michael J Fox going off his Parkinson meds so he could shake while he testified before a committee to get some $ for stem cell research. The ordinary folks are symbols and Joe was a very effective one that changed the tone of campaign.
How did that work out for the campaign?

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post #43 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 06:46 PM
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How much education does Joe have again?
Do you mean formal education? Not everyone needs to be fleeced of their cash and indoctrinated for several years to be "educated". Some people don't have to be coerced into learning. No you haven't struck a chord. I'm not being defensive. I've just observed the level of entitlement that goes along with the random diploma these days. The implication that this man has no wisdom to impart because he is a plumber or blue collar is the type of elitism that's ruining this country. I'm an engineer. I've also done a lot of field work. I'm amazed all the time at what I learn from "Joe" on the job. I was "Joe" at one time. I don't learn much from other engineers. When shit hits the fan, they're usually hiding behind their diplomas.
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post #44 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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Do you mean formal education? Not everyone needs to be fleeced of their cash and indoctrinated for several years to be "educated". Some people don't have to be coerced into learning. No you haven't struck a chord. I'm not being defensive. I've just observed the level of entitlement that goes along with the random diploma these days. The implication that this man has no wisdom to impart because he is a plumber or blue collar is the type of elitism that's ruining this country. I'm an engineer. I've also done a lot of field work. I'm amazed all the time at what I learn from "Joe" on the job. I was "Joe" at one time. I don't learn much from other engineers. When shit hits the fan, they're usually hiding behind their diplomas.
You need to find work with better engineers.

Formal education is not a requirement for being smart. But just the same, having an education does not preclude one from also having common sense.

The smartest person I know did not graduate highschool. I have watched as he has written operating systems from scratch and 3D modeling on the fly...all on an old 386 computer. There are times he lives on the street.

And some of the folks with the highest degrees are unable to dress themselves without help. There just is no stereotyping of either segment.

And the concept of the "Leftist Intellectual Elite" is just humor on the half-shell.

Where Joe the Plumber got in trouble was not that he spoke up but that he got hooked into the media circus and started believing the hype. When the GOP started dragging him out as the Ken to match Caribou Barbie, the circus went to three rings. THAT is what drew the contrasts and made folks actually scrutinize his opinions. He is certainly entitled to them but if he feels like sharing, he has to accept that they are going to be challenged when folks disagree.

Folks on the right didn't like those challenges. If they didn't want Joe Sixpack challenged by the media and the folks on the left, they should not have toured him around with the circus.

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post #45 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 07:17 PM
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Not at all. Unlike the GOP the Dems are cutting the folks with questions loose. The GOP seems to like to keep them on as role models.
I completely disagree. Its the Repubs who expell the bad seeds and the Dem's
who circle the wagons around those who are.

All one needs to do is look at O ba ma and his picks.

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post #46 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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I completely disagree. Its the Repubs who expell the bad seeds and the Dem's
who circle the wagons around those who are.

All one needs to do is look at O ba ma and his picks.
Are you really sure you want to do that list thing again? There is a previous thread on the subject. The list I sent to republicanoffenders.com had over 400 names on it and only included elected state and federal office holders and RNC officials and only went from 1994 to current. [it didn't include Iran Contra or Watergate]

Oh, and "having them indicted and imprisoned" does not count as "expel" so that doesn't eliminate the Abramoff gang, as an example.

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post #47 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 08:28 PM
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Are you really sure you want to do that list thing again? There is a previous thread on the subject. The list I sent to republicanoffenders.com had over 400 names on it and only included elected state and federal office holders and RNC officials and only went from 1994 to current. [it didn't include Iran Contra or Watergate]

Oh, and "having them indicted and imprisoned" does not count as "expel" so that doesn't eliminate the Abramoff gang, as an example.
Well you'll have to excuse me if I don't read every post of yours.
Are you telling me that all 400 of the list kept their positions and were held up as role models?

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post #48 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 08:33 PM
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You need to find work with better engineers.

Formal education is not a requirement for being smart. But just the same, having an education does not preclude one from also having common sense.

The smartest person I know did not graduate highschool. I have watched as he has written operating systems from scratch and 3D modeling on the fly...all on an old 386 computer. There are times he lives on the street.

And some of the folks with the highest degrees are unable to dress themselves without help. There just is no stereotyping of either segment.

And the concept of the "Leftist Intellectual Elite" is just humor on the half-shell.

Where Joe the Plumber got in trouble was not that he spoke up but that he got hooked into the media circus and started believing the hype. When the GOP started dragging him out as the Ken to match Caribou Barbie, the circus went to three rings. THAT is what drew the contrasts and made folks actually scrutinize his opinions. He is certainly entitled to them but if he feels like sharing, he has to accept that they are going to be challenged when folks disagree.

Folks on the right didn't like those challenges. If they didn't want Joe Sixpack challenged by the media and the folks on the left, they should not have toured him around with the circus.
How is challenging someone the same as dismissing them as irrelevant because they haven't met the educational status quo? You're quite the word fiddler Bear, but I'm trackin'.
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post #49 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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Well you'll have to excuse me if I don't read every post of yours.
Are you telling me that all 400 of the list kept their positions and were held up as role models?
No, some went to jail, some resigned and went to Fox, some stayed at the White House, some became lobbyists, some had no change of status, some were voted out of office.

It was bottom's thread but it was somewhat short, they gave up pretty quick. http://www.benzworld.org/forums/off-...orld-hurt.html

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post #50 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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How is challenging someone the same as dismissing them as irrelevant because they haven't met the educational status quo? You're quite the word fiddler Bear, but I'm trackin'.
Those two are not the same, I never said they were.

Joe the Plumber was dismissed as somewhat irrelevant because, as a result of the challenges to his very open opinions, it was found that his story was less than truthful and that he did not know of what he spoke. Much of his "opinion" was either canned or was misinformed and lacked backup.

His educational status only came into play in that he did not have the knowledge base to play in the arena in which he was trying to play.

I am a pretty well educated guy and have a very broad breadth of experience in several disciplines. I do NOT however have skills as a brain surgeon so MY educational status would come into play in that I do not have the knowledge base to play in that arena and I would be dismissed as irrelevant in the field.

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