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post #71 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
JimSmithy is so high on the high road that he is hard to see from down here.

Let's do a little time warp game, Jim, and pretend that you were President back when the detainees were coming off the battlefield in nylon handcuffs. What exactly are you going to do? Where are you going to put them? How will you get the info you desperately need from each one in order to better plan your interventions?

Tell us your plan, man. Or are you just Monday morning quarterbacking?
You pick your path Bottomliner. I see you would prefer to have had the opportunity to work side by side with the likes of Idi Amin.

Let's do the time warp thing even one better. I get to decide what to do on 9-12-2001. I decide to either nuke the Al-Qaeda and Taliban HQs in Afghanistan, or start the other guy's "Arc Light" concept until there is nothing living in the area. Either way we become responsible for killing several hundred thousand people, among them the guys we were hoping to kill.

We provide aid and support for the new government of Afghanistan, and spend a few tens of billions of dollars relocating and rebuilding the area.

There are no detainees.

There is no Iraq invasion.

Some 750,000 people in Iraq who had nothing to do with 9-11-2001 are not killed or maimed.

Blackwater shit never happens.

Abu Ghraib never happens.

5,000 US soldiers are not killed.

50,000 or more US soldiers are not maimed.

Maybe even the London and Madrid bombings don't happen.

Jim

Oh yeah, Halliburton stays out of the news and misses out on all that lucrative, no-bid killin' bidness.
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post #72 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 04:48 PM
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Oh yeah. Don't forget to ask the court of world opinion.
Yeah, 'cause the world court would take a dim view of your practice of cultivating smegma on your dick and eating it. Or, wait, that would be the court of world opinion. Yeah, that court would shun your ass and face and hands and feet, and, actually all of you. But the world court would probably let you continue because I doubt they have a law prohibiting the consumption of a by-product of mental masturbation. Jim
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post #73 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 05:18 PM
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I get the impression that behind that holier than thou constitutionalist facade is one mean motherf^^^^r. Or he could be just an insincere gamer.

Charter member of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy and proud of it.

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post #74 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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No, he doesn't. Once the combatant is in your custody, he is no longer a combatant and is to be treated as a prisoner of war. Which, in our country, means he is given due process under the law. Just because the nation was united in the horror of the 9-11-2001 attacks does not mean the Constitution no longer applies and we transform ourselves into the equals, or if we can, worse savages than the ones we are fighting.

Get a grip. This is America. Not some third world dictatorship where killing and torturing is the norm. Jim
Your idealism runneth over in that last statement of yours. It is a fact that America has been killing, in the BA and still is in the OBA, potential terrorists or combatants in this war. Let's get that misstatement out of the way first.

Second, has the US justice system clearly delineated what is torture ? Are shackling and imprisonment in a bare boned cell torture ? Is feeding of Western meals to Muslim prisoners torture ? Are lengthy interrogation sessions torture ? As bottomline suggests, please come back down to Earth from the high pulpit. Real life is not as simplistic as you would like to portray.

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post #75 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 07:32 PM
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From that, can I conclude that the liberal elites have accepted wholeheartedly in their inner being the results of the 2000 elections ?

Do you really want a country of laws or only when you agree with the interpretation of the laws ?
I can't speak for everyone but of the folks I know, yet, they accept the Supreme Court decision of 2000. All don't agree with it but accept it.

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post #76 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 07:37 PM
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McBear,
You have an uncanny knack of missing every point I made. My solutions are merely defensive and offer no hope of world peace. You are upset with the way the world is, but offer no soution of hope. We could all die waiting for you to have a "discussion" on "priorities".

Oh, and BTW, the lessons of Viet Nam were obviousely lost on you so don't wear your service to this country on your sleeve.
Actually I understand every point that you have made. I just believe that they are incorrect and based on a lack of experience or lack of complete information.

As for not offering a solution for hope, you simply don't like the solutions you hear so you ignore them. That is YOUR issue, not mine.

As for the lessons that I learned in the swamp, you have zero clue as to what they may or may not have been. So your "obviously" is somewhat lost as you do not know of what you speak.

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post #77 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
JimSmithy is so high on the high road that he is hard to see from down here.

Let's do a little time warp game, Jim, and pretend that you were President back when the detainees were coming off the battlefield in nylon handcuffs. What exactly are you going to do? Where are you going to put them? How will you get the info you desperately need from each one in order to better plan your interventions?

Tell us your plan, man. Or are you just Monday morning quarterbacking?
You answered the question. They are PRISONERS of WAR. They should be treated EXACTLY like we expect our POWs to be treated...In accordance with all laws and treaties in force.

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post #78 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 07:46 PM
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If we keep up this bullshit and some you actually find excuses for it, what will be your reaction when we see this again?

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post #79 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 07:57 PM
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I believe they need to have a trial, but it's my understanding that it shouldn't happen until after the war

But obviously they have been holding hearings because there are numerous detainees that have been released.

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post #80 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 07:59 PM
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I find it very strange that a group that normally champions "law and order" as a philosophy abrogated that philosophy so quickly when the choice became to either support the Constitution and Laws of this country and the treaties that we have promised to support OR try and defend the decisions and policies of George W. Bush.

I jokingly suggest that some of the folks on the right are not too bright but I have to say that the mental gymnastics required to make that series of twists and turns requires a certain skillset.

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