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post #41 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 10:22 PM
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I have no interest in "the enemy" or being fair to him. I am the guy who votes for having nuked the fucks in and around the Al-Qaeda and Taliban headquarters on 9-12-2001. You mistake my desire to live up to the standards of the Americans who lived before me and built a nation that was loved and revered around the world because you applied your black and white, liberal vs. conservative filter issued to you by Rush Limbaugh to a situation where it does not apply.

The issue of what to do with these assholes should have been thought out before we started taking them captive and should have ensured whatever we did outside the "heat of battle" was specifically in compliance with our Constitution and the treaties this nation has signed. Instead we started down a path to the lowest common denominator with our enemies. I am ashamed of it and will be greatly relieved when we begin to act like the Americans that lived before us.

That you don't see this is your short coming and has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. It has to do with being proud enough to be an American to be willing to take the "road less traveled" when the situation confronts us. We have an obligation not to tarnish the standard set by those who made America the great nation it was when we were given stewardship of her. That does not mean setting the Constitution and the respect for basic human rights aside while we take the easy, low road when we perceive the chips are down.

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Absolute best post on the subject to date.

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post #42 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 10:27 PM
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I'm not sure the Geneva Convention is relative to these combatants.

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post #43 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Written by someone who reads to get common sense....
LOL
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post #44 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 10:33 PM
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I'm not sure the Geneva Convention is relative to these combatants.
What don't you understand about "All men are created equal?"

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post #45 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 10:35 PM
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What don't you understand about "All men are created equal?"

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post #46 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 10:48 PM
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You need an amendment to the Constitution for that. The basis for what the American outlook on human rights is, is our Constitution. The Geneva Conventions are a subset that is met with a wide margin if we live up to our own Constitution. It is an affront to all those Americans who lived and died before us to presume it is ok to abandon our principles whenever we perceive the chips are down. Jim
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post #47 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 11:01 PM
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You need an amendment to the Constitution for that. The basis for what the American outlook on human rights is, is our Constitution. The Geneva Conventions are a subset that is met with a wide margin if we live up to our own Constitution. It is an affront to all those Americans who lived and died before us to presume it is ok to abandon our principles whenever we perceive the chips are down. Jim
I'm not in favor as you can tell of giving foreigners our rights, especially hostile ones.

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post #48 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 11:08 PM
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I'm not in favor as you can tell of giving foreigners our rights, especially hostile ones.
Read the Constitution. Or The Bill of Rights. They are not yours to confer or give. They were given by the entity that gave us life. The rights are "inalienable" and that means you don't get to take them away. Neither do I. Or any other human being. The Constitution of the United States is one hell of a standard to live up to, and until now every generation of Americans took and ultimately met the challenge of figuring how to apply it more broadly, in practice, than the preceding generation, regardless of the location of the chips.

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post #49 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 11:13 PM
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Read the Constitution. Or The Bill of Rights. They are not yours to confer or give. They were given by the entity that gave us life. The rights are "inalienable" and that means you don't get to take them away. Neither do I. Or any other human being. The Constitution of the United States is one hell of a standard to live up to, and until now every generation of Americans took and ultimately met the challenge of figuring how to apply it more broadly, in practice, than the preceding generation, regardless of the location of the chips.

Jim
Its for Americans.
If you go back in history anybody on the battle field being shot was not thinking of how
the Constitution applied to the people shooting at them.

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post #50 of 143 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 07:43 AM
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Its for Americans.
If you go back in history anybody on the battle field being shot was not thinking of how
the Constitution applied to the people shooting at them.
It must take a lot of effort to prevent this from sinking in. On the battle field they are the enemy and you are seeking to specifically subdue them, by force, and even kill them if need be, for your and the nation's survival (hopefully, but obviously not the case in Iraq). Once they have been disarmed and they are subdued, and under your control as a prisoner, they revert to humans and should be treated as humans. They have been forcefully removed from the battle field and are now your responsibility. Ass fucking them with broom sticks and pissing on them, or waterboarding or other means of torturing them is not in the range of what is ok by the Constitution, and we are better off as a nation to recognize and abide by the standards of the Constitution.

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