The Bipartisan Stimulus Package - Page 8 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #71 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by hilld View Post
Great idea, but what about the luxury items? I already know people who buy yachts, planes, expensive trip packages and 100K plus autos out of country to save 7.5%. At 16% who knows?
There could be exceptions, like home and car purchases (up to certain value tax free, then tax would get progressively higher).
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post #72 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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I am not sure why the same thread was started the second time. It gets to be a hassle.
Well this is the second thread.

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post #73 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:38 PM
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It's a jawhawk thing. Consistently so. I vote for the merge.
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post #74 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:39 PM
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What's your definition of a conspiracy? Something you weren't taught in school? Something you didn't hear or read about in the mainstream. Facts are facts. A conspiracy would be for me to draw a line connecting JFK's death to executive order 11110.
There was much that I was not taught in school that I learn and I would imagine my definition of "mainstream media" would dwarf yours.

Yes, facts are facts but it is very possible to take a subset of facts and draw an incorrect conclusion from them and extrapolate that into a conspiracy.

You brought up Kennedy. I can bring to the table a subset of very valid facts that, when seen by themselves create a completely different picture than if I look at another subset of facts of the same event. And a completely different picture emerges when I look at the totality of facts. The swirl of conspiracy relating to the Kennedy Assassination is usually associated with the viewing of a subset of facts and the exclusion of other facts that fail to support a conclusion drawn from that favored subset.

So we see that facts are not "just" facts. They must be taken in context to have relevance.

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post #75 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:42 PM
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What's your definition of a conspiracy? Something you weren't taught in school? Something you didn't hear or read about in the mainstream. Facts are facts. A conspiracy would be for me to draw a line connecting JFK's death to executive order 11110.
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post #76 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:51 PM
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Let's examine how likely these will turn into permanent government programs..



Once the subsidies are given, yanking them away suddenly does not seem plausible given the dems are in the driver's seat. I would say high likelihood.



High likelihood unless the monies are replaced by private donations



Almost guaranteed to be a annual funding since these are medium to long term projects



Medium to long term projects given the length of time these projects take e.g. env studies, arch reviews, etc etc. So at least for the next decade.



The DTV coupon is a one time stimulus.

Overall, the above "stimulus" programs result in an expansion of government budget (and deficit ) over the next decade.
Again, if ALL of these moved to the continuing budget they would account for 2/10th of 1% of a $3Trillion Annual budget. It adds up but on the other hand, if the justification for injecting money into the economy can be made as a one time event, providing greater than 1:1 ROI, then it can be made in continuing expense also.

While these examples are not infrastructure, it is calculated that INFRASTRUCTURE spending provides a 17-25% ROI, meaning that $1Billion in spending generates $1,170,000,000 in Tax Revenue in Return. Any program that puts folks to work has the potential of generating an ROI, not just an expense.

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post #77 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
There was much that I was not taught in school that I learn and I would imagine my definition of "mainstream media" would dwarf yours.

Yes, facts are facts but it is very possible to take a subset of facts and draw an incorrect conclusion from them and extrapolate that into a conspiracy.

You brought up Kennedy. I can bring to the table a subset of very valid facts that, when seen by themselves create a completely different picture than if I look at another subset of facts of the same event. And a completely different picture emerges when I look at the totality of facts. The swirl of conspiracy relating to the Kennedy Assassination is usually associated with the viewing of a subset of facts and the exclusion of other facts that fail to support a conclusion drawn from that favored subset.

So we see that facts are not "just" facts. They must be taken in context to have relevance.
I admitted that the whole Kennedy thing was conspiratorial. You know, I was comparing and contrasting solid facts v. construed facts. Show me that the FRB is not a private corporation.
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post #78 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 08:00 PM
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Two Identical threads [genesis of both was Rush Limbaugh "editorial"] merged to keep confusion down at the request of posters.

Merge went to Thread that Posted First.

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post #79 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 08:16 PM
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I admitted that the whole Kennedy thing was conspiratorial. You know, I was comparing and contrasting solid facts v. construed facts. Show me that the FRB is not a private corporation.
The intertwining of the FED and the US Government go back to day 1. It was established as a quasi government agency by Congress and its Board of Governors are appointed by the President.

This country has had versions of a Central Bank since Alexander Hamilton first proposed it.

The question is not whether the FED is an independent agency or not, the question is whether there is nefarious intent associated with that independence. IF, on the other hand the Federal Reserve were a fully integral part of the US Government there would likely be continuous conflict as partisan rancor from consistent political appointments manipulated the system even more than now. We had enough of that with Henry Paulson at Treasury.

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post #80 of 217 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 08:37 PM
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The intertwining of the FED and the US Government go back to day 1. It was established as a quasi government agency by Congress and its Board of Governors are appointed by the President.

This country has had versions of a Central Bank since Alexander Hamilton first proposed it.

The question is not whether the FED is an independent agency or not, the question is whether there is nefarious intent associated with that independence. IF, on the other hand the Federal Reserve were a fully integral part of the US Government there would likely be continuous conflict as partisan rancor from consistent political appointments manipulated the system even more than now. We had enough of that with Henry Paulson at Treasury.
You're missing the point. The FRB doesn't need to be a part of the US government. It doesn't need to exist...period. This still is not proof of anything by the way. I'm ready to recycle my aluminum foil. Lay it on me. Show me the smoking gun. It doesn't go back to day 1. Clearly it goes back to 1913.
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