International Law. Why should we care? - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 02:31 AM
It Is What It Is, Dude
 
isthisdave's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2006
Vehicle: 1978 107.024 RIP
Location: InTransition
Posts: 21,646
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
This is the problem of where we are at. We can not trust the news outlets to give us factual information so we are left to decide for ourselves with the best information we can glean at the current time. The information I read says that China and India both have drilling operations in the gulf.

I can't believe an industry insider doesn't have the wherewithal to rustle up an industry source to validate a claim he says the news outlets are failing to provide. Maybe you should check the Offshore Drilling Company Monthly. Don't any of your trade publications have web sites?
isthisdave is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 02:58 AM
slightly creased
 
420 SE's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2005
Vehicle: 1988 420 SE; 2015 ML 400
Location: Gold Coast, QLD, AUS & Doha, Qatar
Posts: 16,177
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisdave View Post
I can't believe an industry insider doesn't have the wherewithal to rustle up an industry source to validate a claim he says the news outlets are failing to provide. Maybe you should check the Offshore Drilling Company Monthly. Don't any of your trade publications have web sites?

Gasp!!!! How did you know that???

Oh, that PUBLIC profile thing must have given it away....

and guilt from being caught out being 'sinful' just wouldn't sit with a fine upstanding christian now would it?

Ross

OzBenz

beware of fundamentalists


Last edited by 420 SE; 01-26-2009 at 03:31 AM.
420 SE is offline  
post #33 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
TNTRower's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2007
Vehicle: '98 E320 Wagon (non 4matic)
Location: Atlanta, GA & Malabo, Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TNTRower
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisdave View Post
I can't believe an industry insider doesn't have the wherewithal to rustle up an industry source to validate a claim he says the news outlets are failing to provide. Maybe you should check the Offshore Drilling Company Monthly. Don't any of your trade publications have web sites?
Perhaps you should take into consideration the fact that none of the parties want to telegraph anything.

Perhaps you should also bear in mind that other than mentioning an agreement, petroleum companies are notoriously closed lipped about drilling operations until they have their test wells done and are ready to start production.

Perhaps you should also bear in mind that we are talking about the Cuban Government and the Chinese Government. I am sure that you will find legions of examples of both of them just opening up their records and granting interviews to anyone who asks for them about sensitive issues such as strategic information. Oh wait what was I thinking...

You are for some reason getting wrapped around the axle on a side comment that has very little to do with the actual thread subject. Why don't you comment on the thread subject instead.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
TNTRower is offline  
post #34 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 07:14 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
jlomon's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2006
Vehicle: 2013 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2011 Mazda 2, 2000 E320 4Matic Wagon (retired),1994 C280 (retired)
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 3,488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The best reason I can think of for not disregarding international law is the simple "quid pro quo" reason. The US regularly comes to the rest of the world for support on issues you deem to be very important to the US. These reasons can range from building coalition support for war (Iraq and Afghanistan) imposing sanctions on countries such as Iran, or just as simple as international free trade agreements that open up foreign markets to US companies or ensure the continuance of vital supplies to the US (oil, for example). The US also comes to the nations of the world to finance debt. Yes, you are the wealthiest and most powerful nation on the earth, but that doesn't make you an island - you have chosen to remain engaged with the rest of the world. If you want the rest of the world to continue to play ball with you, then you need to give as well as take. Otherwise the day might come where the US finds itself increasingly more isolated. This will not cause the destruction of the US, but will have an impact on your standard of living.

If you expect the world to play ball with you, then you need to be prepared to follow some agreed-upon rules. If you opt out, then don't be surprised when the world opts out on issues that you want to be supported on.
jlomon is offline  
post #35 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 07:39 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Ok here is a hand grenade thrown in a shit pot...

Why should we care what International Law says unless we sign a treaty saying that we will do something specific.

We are a sovereign country with the rights of self determination. If you disagree with a policy of the President then you elect people to change it like has happened with Obama.

Why does it matter what another country says is lawful?
How do think international law comes about? Treaties.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #36 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
TNTRower's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2007
Vehicle: '98 E320 Wagon (non 4matic)
Location: Atlanta, GA & Malabo, Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TNTRower
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
How do think international law comes about? Treaties.
But what about when there are no treaties in place to deal with the specifics for example the detainees in Guantanamo.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
TNTRower is offline  
post #37 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 08:47 AM
It Is What It Is, Dude
 
isthisdave's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2006
Vehicle: 1978 107.024 RIP
Location: InTransition
Posts: 21,646
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Perhaps you should take into consideration the fact that none of the parties want to telegraph anything.

Perhaps you should also bear in mind that other than mentioning an agreement, petroleum companies are notoriously closed lipped about drilling operations until they have their test wells done and are ready to start production.

Perhaps you should also bear in mind that we are talking about the Cuban Government and the Chinese Government. I am sure that you will find legions of examples of both of them just opening up their records and granting interviews to anyone who asks for them about sensitive issues such as strategic information. Oh wait what was I thinking...

You are for some reason getting wrapped around the axle on a side comment that has very little to do with the actual thread subject. Why don't you comment on the thread subject instead.



Nice dodge.







Cuba has gleefully announced, in what are arguably grandiose terms, every new development in their energy program. That you now want to postulate reticence on the part of Cuba is laughably weak. Please Mr. Insider, just one scintilla of validating linkage, that's all I'm asking.



Cuba's claims of 20B barrels in offshore oil raise eyebrows

Russia to renew Cuba's oil industry | NowPublic News Coverage
isthisdave is offline  
post #38 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 08:50 AM
It Is What It Is, Dude
 
isthisdave's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2006
Vehicle: 1978 107.024 RIP
Location: InTransition
Posts: 21,646
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
But what about when there are no treaties in place to deal with the specifics for example the detainees in Guantanamo.
Geneva Convention?

Abrogated by the Bush administration claim that detainees were not enemy combatants.
isthisdave is offline  
post #39 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 08:56 AM
It Is What It Is, Dude
 
isthisdave's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2006
Vehicle: 1978 107.024 RIP
Location: InTransition
Posts: 21,646
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Perhaps you should also bear in mind that other than mentioning an agreement, petroleum companies are notoriously closed lipped about drilling operations until they have their test wells done and are ready to start production.

Quote:
The information I read says that China and India both have drilling operations in the gulf.

Can't have it both ways, skippy. Ante up.
isthisdave is offline  
post #40 of 158 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 10:16 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
But what about when there are no treaties in place to deal with the specifics for example the detainees in Guantanamo.
What makes you think this is some kind of tough case? The legal term that comes into play here is "unlawful confinement". Under the Geneva Convention, signatories agree that people may be confined as prisoners of war for the duration of a war, or they may be confined as a result of committing crimes, for which they must be tried. Gitmo violates these laws. Bush has used the "unlawful combatant" argument to claim he has some kind of legal right to deny prisoners the recognized international rights of criminal defendants, which for international law purposes is the right of habeaus corpus, and that he has the right to deny them the protections of the Geneva Convention, because he claimed that they were not prisoners of war. In essence, he is doing this so that he can torture them, and claim that he cannot be prosecuted for torturing them.

The real truth is these people are accused criminals who have been denied the right of simple habeaus corpus, or they are war prisoners who have been tortured, both crimes under international law that we are bound to accoding to our own Constitution. If he treated them as criminals or POWs, he would be unable to torture them without violating US law, nevermind International Law.

Any treaty ratified by the US Senate has the force of law in the US according to the COTUS. That's also why Bush refused during his dictatorship to bring numerous treaties concerning war crimes to the Senate. What's so complicated about that, other than your desire to drape your argument in some bullshit? Obama is simply ending all these fictions. These terrorists will be tried in criminal courts, where they belong.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 01-26-2009 at 10:21 AM.
FeelTheLove is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Product Review: Adam's Care Care Products (Long) ByByeAmericanPie Detailing and Car Care 14 05-11-2015 05:50 PM
    How much international travel... GeeS Off-Topic 17 10-29-2008 08:45 PM
    Shariah ( Islamic ) law vs Talmud ( Jewish ) law Designo_E320 Off-Topic 37 06-15-2007 12:03 PM
    LA International Auto Show Beleriand R171 SLK-Class 3 12-01-2006 06:33 AM
    There's very good information on leather care at www.leatherZ.com Click Leather Care Jones R170 SLK-Class 4 04-20-2001 03:41 PM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome