Why do politicians think it is fun to play with people's lives? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 08:51 PM
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Yes it is History that you would like to re-write. All of the Senate Intelligence Committee saw the same thing, the British, the rest of the 21 countries that decided to help as well. Your argument that Bush "Cherry Picked" intelligence is a giant red herring. He chose to present certain intelligence to the American people, that I agree with. However, it was not the intelligence that he picked that was presented to the Congressional Oversight committees.

As for the socio-economic argument you miss that point as well. They volunteer to serve. There is no coercion.
Regarding the volunteers, many don't have a choice since jobs don't always exist for everyone. And since the affluent DON'T tend to volunteer that disproportionality does exist. THAT is the point that was made.

Regarding the Senate Intel. And I know this is going to be hard to follow. WHO PROVIDED THEM INFORMATION? Who chose what information to provide them. You might want to re-read the 9/11 Commission Report and Senate Select report to gain the prospective of who knew what and when. As a hint, check on Cheney visits to Langley regarding which intel would be disclosed to Congress. You might find that enlightening. [If you want to do a search, either use Google or just search BWOT, it has been linked repeatedly]

As for the foreign intel, you really might want to revisit that also. There were several agencies, Brit and French specifically who were very much saying that the US intel was incorrect.

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 08:53 PM
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I volunteered here 4 years ago, where's my? oh never mind.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 10:02 PM
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People in power like to MESS with posters Lives. What?
You chucklehead!

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 10:05 PM
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Those with money tended to utilize those ways more frequently.
I think my parents were planning to send our indentured servant in my place. Helga could be a real bitch when she needed to.

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 10:05 PM
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You chucklehead!
Yes, for Dig me Now?
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Regarding the volunteers, many don't have a choice since jobs don't always exist for everyone. And since the affluent DON'T tend to volunteer that disproportionality does exist. THAT is the point that was made.

Regarding the Senate Intel. And I know this is going to be hard to follow. WHO PROVIDED THEM INFORMATION? Who chose what information to provide them. You might want to re-read the 9/11 Commission Report and Senate Select report to gain the prospective of who knew what and when. As a hint, check on Cheney visits to Langley regarding which intel would be disclosed to Congress. You might find that enlightening. [If you want to do a search, either use Google or just search BWOT, it has been linked repeatedly]

As for the foreign intel, you really might want to revisit that also. There were several agencies, Brit and French specifically who were very much saying that the US intel was incorrect.
Well of course the Brits were saying we were incorrect. That is why they went in with us! You know, to save us from ourselves.

Jeez McBear, try to at least apply some common sense.

As for the intelligence that was chosen to be presented by the CIA to the Congressional Oversight Committees, nice try but no matter how much Cheney says "Do not present this" or "Present this instead" the CIA still presents the all the analysis it has.

The SSCI report actually said:

"Most of the major key judgments in the Intelligence Community’s October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting. A series of failures, particularly in analytic trade craft, led to the mischaracterization of the intelligence."

Notice there is nothing in there about Cheney coming down and being a bully.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:58 AM
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Of course, the fact that the UN Weapons Inspectors were giving everyone completely accurate information on the status of Iraq, and the Security Council's refusal to give it's permission for our Hitler style invasion matters not a wit to you, does it? Remember when Bush claimed the UN inspectors were being "duped", and how we now know today the one being duped was him? How about when they asked for six more weeks to complete their inspections in which they claimed they could obtain definitive proof that Colin Powell's claims of "mobile weapons labs" and "six months to a nuclear bomb" were false? All of this happened after the Congressional actions. The Congress did not direct a war be fought, it gave Bush the power to act. Bush clearly acted in a fashion that showed he was determined to have his war no matter what the real facts were. Instead of giving Hans Blix the six weeks he sought to get the real facts, Bush attacked Iraq in one of the bloodiest acts of mass murder in human history, the "Shock and Awe" attack of March 2003, where Bush made the decision to attack the largest population centers of a defenseless nation with some of the most horrific weapons known to man. It was an act of calculated mass murder against defenseless, innocent people, and this nation will bear it in shame.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 11:23 AM
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Well of course the Brits were saying we were incorrect. That is why they went in with us! You know, to save us from ourselves.

Jeez McBear, try to at least apply some common sense.

As for the intelligence that was chosen to be presented by the CIA to the Congressional Oversight Committees, nice try but no matter how much Cheney says "Do not present this" or "Present this instead" the CIA still presents the all the analysis it has.

The SSCI report actually said:

"Most of the major key judgments in the Intelligence Community’s October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting. A series of failures, particularly in analytic trade craft, led to the mischaracterization of the intelligence."

Notice there is nothing in there about Cheney coming down and being a bully.
Well, at least you finally read the part about the mischaracterization and overstating. That's something.

As for Britain, you might want to dig a bit deeper before making blanket assumptions. Yes they had contra intellegence, Yes they went with us. Those two pieces of history pose ironic conflict but don't nullify each other.

McBear,
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Well, at least you finally read the part about the mischaracterization and overstating. That's something.

As for Britain, you might want to dig a bit deeper before making blanket assumptions. Yes they had contra intellegence, Yes they went with us. Those two pieces of history pose ironic conflict but don't nullify each other.
So then you admit that Cheney did not direct or cherry pick certain intelligence. I am glad that you at least can be honest when presented with evidence.

As for the Brits, I raise this point again, Politicians go the way the wind blows with certain rare exceptions. Blair was everybit a politician who had a population that was more antiwar than the US. So by your argument, the Brits went in believing in false premises and the leadership all went hook-line-and-sinker following Bush, against public opinion because he is so gosh darn persuasive.

That just does not pass the sniff test.

And besides, since when was Weapons of Mass Destruction the main reason we went to war in Iraq?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 06:58 PM
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^ That's some funny stuff right there. LOL

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