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post #291 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AndreiRN View Post
Israel army has screwed up again.
They should heve by now 2300 dead and only 430 injured.
Hamas asked for this.
And they got less then they deserve.
And the civilians dezerve all the blood they got.
They elected to be lead by criminals and fanatics.
If my neighbor does that to me, I feed him to the dogs.
I do believe the majority of the Gaza inhabitants are normal human beings.

Hamas thugs keep them hostages. Hamas thugs most probably are paid to do so, just like Zaloopa is most probably paid to post here.

I regret any civilian casualties as a result of this war.

As of election results, if you are nicely asked to vote for hamas or else you would be shot on the spot as Israeli collaborator, how would you vote?

Hamas thugs break hands and shoot legs of their Gaza citizens if they suspect those people are from FATH, Abbas organization members.

Last edited by maine_coon; 01-04-2009 at 09:27 PM.
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post #292 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by maine_coon View Post
1. I do believe the majority of the Gaza inhabitants are normal human beings.
2. Hamas thugs keep them hostages. Hamas thugs most probably are paid to do so.
3. As of election results, if you are nicely asked to vote for hamas or else you would be shot on the spot as Israeli collaborator, how would you vote?
1. I KNOW they are human beings.
2. By your logic american citizens have been Bush administration hostages for last 8 years?
3. It was a fair and free election and you are the first to come up with this claims. They chose Hamas in traditional hate of Israel.

Last edited by AndreiRN; 01-05-2009 at 12:29 AM.
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post #293 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 09:41 PM
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1. I KNOW theu are human beings.
Good.

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2. By your logic american citizens have been Bush administration hostages for last 8 years?
Pretty much so. We did not have any influence over the politics of the gov.


Quote:
3. It was a fair and free election and you are the first to come up with this claims. They chose Hamas in traditional hate of Israel.
They don't exactly love Israel, correct.

But I am yet to see "fair and free election" in any Arab country.

Armed terrorists giving money/food for free to the "regular" families gained as many votes as they could.

And in many cases the alternative was to be shot as a traitor and collaborator.

That's what my ME friends were telling me.

Last edited by maine_coon; 01-04-2009 at 09:44 PM.
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post #294 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 10:00 PM
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It seems hard to get any comment re the Hamas - Iran connection from our ME members.

Here is an interesting piece of news:


Hamas moves on Fatah 'collaborators'

Jan. 4, 2009
Khaled Abu Toameh , THE JERUSALEM POST
The Hamas government has placed dozens of Fatah members under house arrest out of fear that they might exploit the current IDF operation to regain control of the Gaza Strip.

The move came amid reports that the Fatah leadership in the West Bank has instructed its followers to be ready to assume power over the Gaza Strip when and if Israel's military operation results in the removal of Hamas rule.

Fatah officials in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that Hamas militiamen had been assaulting many Fatah activists since the beginning of the operation last Saturday. They said at least 75 activists were shot in the legs while others had their hands broken.

Wisam Abu Jalhoum, a Fatah activist from the Jabalya refugee camp, was shot in the legs by Hamas militiamen for allegedly expressing joy over the IDF air strikes on Hamas targets.

"Hamas is very nervous, because they feel that their end is nearing," a senior Fatah official said. "They have been waging a brutal campaign against Fatah members in the Gaza Strip."

Meanwhile, sources close to Hamas revealed over the weekend that the movement had "executed" more than 35 Palestinians who were suspected of collaborating with Israel and were being held in various Hamas security installations.

The sources quoted Hamas officials as saying that the decision to kill the suspected collaborators was taken out of fear that Israel might try to rescue them during a ground offensive. The officials claimed that at least half of the victims were killed by relatives of Palestinian militiamen who were killed as a result of information passed on to Israel by the "collaborators."

Justifying the latest crackdown on Fatah, a Hamas official in Gaza City said that his government had received information according to which Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas had instructed his loyalists in the Strip to start moving toward undermining Hamas.

"We will kill them all if they try to help Israel bring down our government," the official said. "We will hang Mahmoud Abbas and [former Fatah security chief] Muhammad Dahlan in the public square if they try to enter the Gaza Strip aboard Israeli tanks."

The Hamas official said that his security forces had launched a massive "preemptive" campaign aimed at thwarting Fatah's attempts to "spread anarchy and chaos." He confirmed that many Fatah operatives had been shot in the legs over the past few days by Hamas "to make sure that they don't help Israel."

Fahmi Za'arir, a Fatah spokesman in the West Bank, accused Hamas of "executing" a number of Fatah detainees. He said the Fatah leadership knew of at least two Fatah men who were shot dead by Hamas after being released from prison. He named them as Nasser Muhana and Saher al-Silawi.

Za'arir said that several Fatah members who attended funerals of victims of the IAF strikes were severely beaten by Hamas militiamen who accused them of collaboration with Israel.

It was "shameful" that Hamas was directing its weapons and energies against its own people instead of fighting against Israel, the spokesman said.

The decision to place Fatah operatives under house arrest was issued by the much-feared "Internal Security Apparatus," which reports to the Hamas-controlled Interior Ministry in Gaza.

The order, which was delivered to the Fatah activists on Thursday, reads: "You are forbidden from leaving your home for 48 hours unless you want to attend Friday prayers. Anyone who violates the order will be punished."
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post #295 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 10:12 PM
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post #296 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 11:01 PM
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Israel will do what Israel does best, trust me, it ain't worried about how the Arab states will react. For one Egypt and Jordan are no longer a threat, Syria is powerless so who in the hell is going to dare attack Israel if, no let me rephrase when it takes back Gaza? Oh I forgot Iraq... oops Saddam is gone so the answer is NO ONE!
Oh, you say international outrage, haha hahahahaha hahahaha do you think Israel cares about "outrage", don't worry milfy, we are here to protect Israel as we have always done and we will reap whatever unhappy Arabs will throw at us in terms of terrorism, you know the usual. As long as $$ are flowing in armament, some people are getting richer, and the religious right approves then Israel is golden. It may as well reach out and claim what it really wants, why stall for the inevitable?
One way to judge a country is based on its previous actions.
In 2005, Israel withdrew its forces from Gaza after a 38 yr presence.

The same "border control" spiel is repeated by the Palestinian minister...

Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/12/in...12mideast.html
In moves coordinated with the Israeli military, Palestinian security forces immediately entered the evacuated Jewish settlements, where they raised Palestinian flags. Hundreds of Palestinians followed.
...
On Sunday, the cabinet approved the end of military rule in Gaza, which was established after Israel captured the territory from Egypt in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
...
While the evacuation of Jewish settlers last month included confrontations between the Israeli security forces and opponents of the withdrawal, the pullout on Sunday was simply a matter of the Israeli government giving the go-ahead.
...
"By reserving for itself the ability to invade the Gaza Strip and by maintaining control over Palestinian air space, territorial waters, and, most important, its borders, Israel will continue its military rule over the Palestinians," Mr. Dahlan, the Palestinian civil affairs minister, said at a news conference in Gaza City. "Israel is deluding itself if it believes that its occupation over the Gaza Strip has ended."

Last edited by mlfun; 01-04-2009 at 11:09 PM.
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post #297 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-05-2009, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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maine_coon,

Are you an IDF spokesman?? You sound like one of them, although they use less lies. No one ever questioned the elections results. There were observers to monitor the elections.. Jimmy Carter was among them:

Quote:
(CNN) -- Hamas deserves to be recognized by the international community, and despite the group's militant history, there is a chance the soon-to-be Palestinian leaders could turn away from violence, former President Jimmy Carter said Wednesday.

Carter, who monitored last week's Palestinian elections in which Hamas handily toppled the ruling Fatah..
CNN.com - Jimmy Carter: Give Hamas a chance - Feb 1, 2006
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post #298 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-05-2009, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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Escape from Hamas
That's a good piece of advice.. to the Israeli troops.
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post #299 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-05-2009, 12:54 AM
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What's the latest on the ground incursion?

[EDIT: I found this on Al Jazeera]

UPDATED ON:
Monday, January 05, 2009
10:05 Mecca time, 07:05 GMT
News Middle East

Israel intensifies assault on Gaza

Hundreds of civilians have been killed in the fighting, 509 Palestinians and four Israelis

Israel has said that its offensive in Gaza could take "many long days" as its troops moved deeper into the Palestinian territory in the second day of its ground attack.

Troops backed by air and naval power surrounded Gaza City and in effect sliced the territory in two.

An Israeli air strike hit two ambulances in Gaza on Sunday, killing four paramedics as they tried to reach those injured in the offensive.

Israeli government officials say they are not targeting civilians, only trying to stop rockets by the Palestinian Hamas movement governing Gaza, which are still being fired into southern Israel.

Civilian injuries and casualties in Gaza continue to mount and the death toll now stands at 521, with at least 64 people killed since the ground offensive began, according to Palestinian medical authorities. Some 2,450 have been injured.

Among the latest victims were a mother and her four young children, killed in an Israeli air strike on their home in Gaza.

Four Israeli civilians have been killed and two injured by Palestinian rocket attacks.

The International Red Cross has urged Israel and Hamas to stop targeting civilians.

The military wings of rival Palestinian factions in Gaza have united to fight against the advancing Israeli troops. One Israeli soldier has been killed and 49 wounded.

On the diplomatic front, a Hamas official said a delegation would head to Cairo on Monday, "answering an Egyptian invitation to hold discussions" on a ceasefire.

The talks are set to coincide with the arrival of Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, in the region, to push for a European-backed ceasefire.

The UN Security Council is also set to meet on Monday to discuss the crisis following an emergency session on Sunday that failed to produce a resolution or even a statement calling for a halt to the fighting.

Israel's ground offensive launched on Saturday followed eight days of intense bombardment of the Gaza Strip, purportedly aimed at ending cross-border rockets being fired by Hamas fighters from the territory into southern Israel.

Hamas defiant

An undaunted Hamas has vowed to fight back and defeat the Israeli forces. A spokesman for Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of the Hamas, told Al Jazeera on Sunday that Israeli troops faced death or capture.

"The battle has just started and the enemy should endure the consequences and results. They should be ready for the bad news coming from the Gaza Strip," Abu Obeida, a spokesman, said.

Hamas said it had captured two Israeli soldiers but the Israeli army denied that.

Shimon Peres, the Israeli president, rejected the possibility of a ceasefire but said Israel did not intend to occupy Gaza.

"We don't intend neither to occupy Gaza nor to crush Hamas, but to crush terror. And Hamas needs a real and serious lesson. They are now getting it," Peres said on Sunday.

Al Jazeera's Sherine Tadros, reporting from the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, said doctors were struggling to cope amid low supplies and the rising number of wounded.

She said the scene was chaotic, with doctors treating the injured on the floor.

Humanitarian crisis

Fears of a humanitarian crisis have also grown in recent days, as the strip, home to 1.5 million people, is already suffering shortages of fuel, food and medical supplies due to a two-year economic blockade imposed by Israel.

Israeli positions in Gaza
The International Committee for the Red Cross said on Sunday its medical emergency team had been prevented for a third day from entering the territory.

Egypt has also completely closed the Rafah crossing, cutting off aid supplies to the territory.

The UN has warned that there were "critical gaps" in aid reaching Gaza, despite claims from Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister, that there was no crisis and that aid was getting through.

Christopher Gunness, the UN Relief and Works Agency (Unrwa) spokesman, said the idea that there was no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, was absurd.

"The organisation for which I work - Unrwa - has approximately 9,000 to 10,000 workers on the ground. They are speaking with the ordinary civilians in Gaza... People are suffering. A quarter of all those being killed now are civilians. So when I hear people say we're doing our best to avoid civilian casualties that rings very hollow indeed."

Elsewhere in the strip, heavy artillery, tracer fire and rockets could be heard while reports said Israeli troops had reached the northern towns of Beit Lahiya and Beit Hanoun.

Soldiers and fighters were also locked in gun battles east of the Hamas stronghold of Zeitoun.

Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin, reporting from Gaza City, said power lines have been cut throughout Gaza and more than 250,000 people in the northern part of the territory were without electricity.

'No picnic'

Witnesses in eastern Gaza told Al Jazeera that soldiers had begun house to house operations, moving from building to building. They had also taken positions on top of many of the rooftops in that area, the witnesses said.

Barak said the operation would be "expanded and intensified as much as necessary"
Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland, reporting from the Israeli side of the border, said the authorities there have been extremely tight-lipped about the operation.

However, the military confirmed that at least 30 soldiers have been wounded, two of them seriously, in the fighting so far.

Israel extended its naval blockade of Gaza early on Sunday, from six nautical miles to 20 nautical miles, preventing humanitarian aid and protest vessels from trying to break the siege.

It also captured the Hamas-affiliated Al Aqsa TV and has been broadcasting messages telling Hamas leaders to give themselves up.

Around 9,000 military reservists have been called up to assist in the ground assault.

Ehud Barak, Israel's defence minister, said that the operation was aimed at forcing Hamas "to stop its hostile activities against Israel and bring about significant change".

"The operation will be expanded and intensified as much as necessary," Barak said on Sunday. "War is not a picnic."

Last edited by Zeitgeist; 01-05-2009 at 01:02 AM.
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post #300 of 680 (permalink) Old 01-05-2009, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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Teutone,

Palestinians have been plagued by Israel collaborators for ages. I call them traitors. When my country is being bombarded by the enemy and I know of one who helps the enemy in any way, I call him a traitor.

Yesterday, there were reports of such traitors operating from Gaza, helping Israeli troops to locate Palestinian fighters. I read the piece of news to my husband, an ex-Fatah supporter by the way, and he couldn't believe it. He shouted at the screen: Kill the traitors! Execute them on the spot!

In our extended family, there are many Fatah supporters who would like to see Hamas gone from power. But treason is never the way to go.
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