What Do The Palestinians/Hamas Really Want, Why, and How's Their Strategy Working? - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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What Do The Palestinians/Hamas Really Want, Why, and How's Their Strategy Working?

This is not an invitation to shit on either side. I am genuinely confused by the conflicting values displayed by the Palestinians and Hamas today, the PLO and others of late and would love to know what the actual goal really is, and how they think their strategy is working.

First, the map of shrinking Palestinian ruled territory that has been posted makes it clear Israel responds to whatever they perceive as aggression against their state/people by taking land, then using some portion of it to negotiate a cease fire, temporary peace agreement, concessions for more arms from the US, etc., etc., as they see the use of the land is most likely able to advance their cause. The Palestinians live on the opposite side of this coin and are thus always the losers. From my un-allied with either side position this appears to be a case of the Israelis just out thinking, out-strategizing and out-executing, the Palestinians. Over and over, which, due to its repetitive nature, makes the PR work in Israel's favor as well. The Palestinians seem to dull to figure out what is happening to them so they throw stones or whatever anyone from the Arab/Persian alliance to constantly irritate Israel sends them to chuck over the border.

I am genuinely confused by the lack of leadership - it does not usually take a hundred years for a leader of an oppressed group to be recognized by the people and thus supported. To date the lack of the Palestinian "strategy" identified and implemented by the PLO, others and now Hamas to be effective, either as a strategy by itself, or an executed strategy (assuming the strategy was a good one and only needed to be properly executed) to achieve any particular goal (look at that map again, and imagine where it is going to leave the Palestinians in a month or so) seems to go entirely unnoticed by the Palestinian people.

This makes it seem like the announced goal, a free state for the Palestinian people to live in, in peace, with prosperity and security, is hardly the goal. And this is what Israel exploits in their international, and targeted to the US, public relations campaign. And it works because there is a huge, at least apparent, logic disconnect between the stated goal and the strategy Hamas and its predecessors have been employing to achieve the goal. In fact, it seems as soon as things are relatively calm, shit erupts to undo the apparent progress. This appears to serve the interests of those who have something, or an expectation that they have something to gain from the resulting chaos.

Israel's land grab seems to ratchet up as a result, however, for Israel to benefit the Palestinians in the form of the PLO in the past and Hamas of late have to cooperate. It seems peculiar that other observers closer to the problem, in the Palestinian territories for example, don't see this.

Anyway, if anyone has some perspective on what it is the Palestinians really want and how their present strategy, essentially unchanged for 60 years now, is supposed to advance them towards that goal, please feel free to enlighten me. I don't value the "history" lesson as I think it is all relatively meaningless - the value of the lives of dead civilians cannot be greater than the lives of living civilians and any strategy that suggests the fight must go on merely in retribution for the deaths of already dead people, which will create more dead people, is merely subscribing to an endless do-loop of violence and death. Hard as it may be, the Palestinians it seems to me have to decide whether the purpose of the living is no more than to avenge the deaths of the already dead. If they conclude the living are more important than the already dead, they need a new strategy. Jim
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 11:59 AM
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I think you actually answered your own question in there somewhere, but it's a good post and I have certainly wondered the same thing.

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Originally Posted by JimSmith
I am genuinely confused by the lack of leadership - it does not usually take a hundred years for a leader of an oppressed group to be recognized by the people and thus supported. To date the lack of the Palestinian "strategy" identified and implemented by the PLO, others and now Hamas to be effective, either as a strategy by itself, or an executed strategy (assuming the strategy was a good one and only needed to be properly executed) to achieve any particular goal (look at that map again, and imagine where it is going to leave the Palestinians in a month or so) seems to go entirely unnoticed by the Palestinian people.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 12:35 PM
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Draw your own conclusions ...
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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I think you actually answered your own question in there somewhere......
Yeah, but I am hoping someone with a different view can explain to me why I am missing what makes the present strategy work for the Palestinians. Jim
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Draw your own conclusions ...

This perspective is specifically what I was not looking for - I can find that on any bathroom stall. Jim
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 02:56 PM
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This perspective is specifically what I was not looking for - I can find that on any bathroom stall. Jim
Having a negative bias towards certain perspectives belies your quest for a real answer to the question of this thread. mlfun.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 03:16 PM
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What Do The Palestinians/Hamas Really Want, ...

Here's another perspective.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 04:34 PM
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I think the question itself is kind of flawed.

You are talking about hamas and palestinians as if it was a real democratic country with the responsible representatives. Well, it is not.

There is Gaza population, living in harsh conditions. Harsh living conditions always present a very good ground for the rise of the extremist movements. As in most cases, the population does not really understand what their real goals are and delegate the solution to the extremists.

There are "regular" hamas members, recruited, obtained better level of living and little power over their civilian surroundings. There are brainwashed fanatics devoted to 72 virgins etc.among them, but mostly those are regular gangsters as Egyptian head of security characterized hamas members.

And then there is hamas "politbureau", members of which seat in the safety of the foreign capitals such as Damascus etc. Those don't give a shit. The more suffering is there, the better for them so they can receive more financial aid and more degrees of compassion from the Western "useful idiots".

So here you have it.

Gaza Palestinian population - what are their goals?

"Regular" members of hamas - what are their goals?

"politbureau" - what are their goals?

Last edited by maine_coon; 01-13-2009 at 05:54 PM.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by maine_coon View Post
.

Gaza Palestinian population - what are their goals?

"Regular" members of hamas - what are their goals?

"politbureau" - what are their goals?
Good point.

We also have to ask ourselves - why are the Palestinians universally despised throughout the Arab lands? They were driven out of Jordan, and refused land by all the wealthy oil states in the region.

They must be the 'gypsies' of the Middle East - unwanted everywhere...
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 06:06 PM
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[QUOTE=keyhole;3255448]Good point.

We also have to ask ourselves - why are the Palestinians universally despised throughout the Arab lands? They were driven out of Jordan, and refused land by all the wealthy oil states in the region.

could despised be changed to utilised ? or is it both.
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