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post #61 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 05:12 PM
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post #62 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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The teachers have to go by a standard curriculum so that the students are able to pass the tests. The kids have these tests pounded into their heads for weeks prior to taking the standardized tests. It's all a bunch of crap, the kids only learn what is on the tests not much more. And, the teachers are at the mercy of the government for having to get a certain percentage of kids to do better every year on these tests. It's pathetic. No two children learn the same just as no two people behave the same. It's just a horse and pony show. And, they use our kids as the main event.
If you are in a district that does that get you kids away, because that is not how it works. There is nothing wrong w/ teaching the skills measured by the test because that is exactly what has been missing in years past, but the crap you describe--if true--is not how good school systems do it. So, don't blame NSLB because you are in a bad school district. Try to change it!

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post #63 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 05:59 PM
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If you are in a district that does that get you kids away, because that is not how it works. There is nothing wrong w/ teaching the skills measured by the test because that is exactly what has been missing in years past, but the crap you describe--if true--is not how good school systems do it. So, don't blame NSLB because you are in a bad school district. Try to change it!
true true
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post #64 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 06:03 PM
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Got a link? What "policies triggered by Republican Administrations" triggered unemployment?

Are you saying this is a one sided argument? Did not the Democrats have anything to do with anything? Is this a matter of Democrats good, Republicans bad?
Not remotely one sided. You were the one that brought up the partisan aspect back on your first post. And when you defend a point, expect to get questions and responses. That is how it works.

As an example to your question. The policies triggered by Republican administrations would be those policies that provide tax credits for businesses to offshore their manufacturing, bring in 2-3X the limit of H1Bs and the deregulation that allowed the massive trade imbalances that have gripped the country for the past eight years.

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post #65 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 06:06 PM
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If you are in a district that does that get you kids away, because that is not how it works. There is nothing wrong w/ teaching the skills measured by the test because that is exactly what has been missing in years past, but the crap you describe--if true--is not how good school systems do it. So, don't blame NSLB because you are in a bad school district. Try to change it!
Jay, that has been the frustration with NCLB. In nearly EVERY district there are instances of "teaching to the test". The financial carrots that accompany the scores drive that philosophy.

You are dead correct that it is not how it is suppose to work but it is how the system is gamed on a daily basis.

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post #66 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 06:16 PM
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Not remotely one sided. You were the one that brought up the partisan aspect back on your first post. And when you defend a point, expect to get questions and responses. That is how it works.

As an example to your question. The policies triggered by Republican administrations would be those policies that provide tax credits for businesses to offshore their manufacturing, bring in 2-3X the limit of H1Bs and the deregulation that allowed the massive trade imbalances that have gripped the country for the past eight years.
Your argument about offshoring is absolutely false. Read John Stossel's article on the subject. You can also read about it in his book Myths, Lies and Downright Stupidity.

Who's John Galt.

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post #67 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 06:32 PM
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Not remotely one sided. You were the one that brought up the partisan aspect back on your first post. And when you defend a point, expect to get questions and responses. That is how it works.

As an example to your question. The policies triggered by Republican administrations would be those policies that provide tax credits for businesses to offshore their manufacturing, bring in 2-3X the limit of H1Bs and the deregulation that allowed the massive trade imbalances that have gripped the country for the past eight years.
Tax credits huh? I think you are misinterpreting the reasons why a Corporation moves its operations overseas. They do so to evade the huge tax burden that hits them in America. We currently have one of the highest Corp. tax rates in the world. This is not a Bush Administration phenomenon, this is a government run amok with taxing phenomenon. Over taxing the populace has never cured economic woes.

If you can give me direct policies that gave tax credits to corp. that move their operations overseas, I would gladly read it.

My first post was layered with sarcasm. Sorry you missed that.
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post #68 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 06:33 PM
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Your argument about offshoring is absolutely false. Read John Stossel's article on the subject. You can also read about it in his book Myths, Lies and Downright Stupidity.
I prefer to read economist's reports and extrapolate official statistics, not left or right wing journalists. I get much more clear, unbiased information.

And my argument about offshoring is dead sound.

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post #69 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:03 PM
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Tax credits huh? I think you are misinterpreting the reasons why a Corporation moves its operations overseas. They do so to evade the huge tax burden that hits them in America. We currently have one of the highest Corp. tax rates in the world. This is not a Bush Administration phenomenon, this is a government run amok with taxing phenomenon. Over taxing the populace has never cured economic woes.

If you can give me direct policies that gave tax credits to corp. that move their operations overseas, I would gladly read it.

My first post was layered with sarcasm. Sorry you missed that.
No, I am not misrepresenting the reasons why a Corporation moves its operations overseas. I deal with it pretty much every day, and have for a bit over 20 years. I understand the tax implementations and I understand the motives.

To answer one of your "direct policy" questions, look up 2003-2006 H1B VISA increases and the correlation to layoffs within the IT industry.

For some offshore investment information, this article provides a pretty good overview and a very good set of footnotes that are very comprehensive on the subject.

HLPR ONLINE: Shipping Jobs Overseas: How the Tax Code Subsidizes Foreign Investment and How to Fix It
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Originally Posted by from the Harvard Article
Shipping Jobs Overseas: How the Tax Code Subsidizes Foreign Investment and How to Fix It

James Kvaal

Income earned in tax havens and other low-tax countries should be fully taxed by the U.S. Such a system would greatly reduce incentives to invest overseas, reward countries that adopt responsible tax systems, and raise substantial resources that could be used to strengthen the competitiveness of American workers.

It’s no secret that many American workers are struggling. Global competition is increasingly intense. Median household income has fallen in recent years, despite a growing economy.1 Meanwhile, middle-class workers bear a larger share of the tax burden.2 More surprising is that the tax code’s special breaks for multinational corporations exacerbate these problems.

Multinationals often pay little or no taxes on their foreign profits. In some cases, tax benefits for foreign investment are larger than the actual tax, meaning that in some cases Uncle Sam actually pays corporations to invest overseas. As a result, the tax code encourages multinationals to invest outside the United States rather than within it. Shifting business investment abroad can reduce American economic growth and wages. Even solely paper transactions to exploit these rules erode the tax base, shifting the tax burden from corporate profits onto wages and other sources.

Reformers should begin by recognizing that not all countries are alike. Major industrialized nations like France, Germany, and Japan generally have tax systems comparable to our own. Taxing profits earned in these countries is difficult, raises little revenue, and is unnecessary to prevent incentives to move offshore. The story is different in tax havens and low-tax countries like Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, and Ireland. These are the countries that are undercutting our tax base, diverting investment from the U.S., and creating opportunities for abusive tax shelters.

The tax code should ensure that all foreign income is taxed once at a reasonable rate. If the income is taxed by the country where it is earned, fine – no U.S. tax need be collected. However, income earned in tax havens and other low-tax countries should be fully taxed by the U.S. Such a system would greatly reduce incentives to invest overseas, reward countries that adopt responsible tax systems, and raise substantial resources that could be used to strengthen the competitiveness of American workers.

Tax Distortions in a Globalizing World

The integration of the world economy has magnified the impact of tax disparities. As other costs of moving offshore decline, remaining cost differences – including taxes – become more important. Tax havens pose three threats to the American economy.

First, tax disparities distort investment decisions, diverting capital from its most productive use. Not surprisingly, companies invest more in countries with lower taxes.3 Tax havens account for less than one percent of the world’s population but more than eight percent of American multinationals’ foreign investments in property, plants, and equipment.4

Second, a loss of U.S. capital to foreign economies can reduce wages of American workers, while increasing the return to remaining capital.5 Downward pressure on wages comes when real wages are stagnant or falling for most workers.6

Finally, even if corporations keep their actual business activity within the U.S., they may stretch the rules to characterize as much income as possible as earned in low-tax countries, thereby eroding the U.S. tax base. Indeed, U.S. multinationals now claim to earn almost half of their foreign profits in tax havens, suggesting that they are taking advantage of these laws.7

Due to these three factors, each nation has an incentive to cut corporate taxes below their neighbors’ rates to attract foreign investment. The resulting race to the bottom undermines countries’ sovereignty by preventing them from fairly taxing corporate income. Rates in OECD countries have fallen by a third over the past two decades, suggesting that the race has already begun.8 The result has been an increasing reliance on regressive consumption and wage taxes.9

Making Matters Worse: The U.S. Tax Code

In principle, the U.S. taxes American companies on all of their worldwide earnings. Worldwide taxation would eliminate any incentives to move offshore. However, two major exceptions swallow this rule.

First, American multinationals can defer U.S. taxes indefinitely as long as profits are held in a foreign subsidiary. Taxes are only due when the money is returned to the U.S. parent corporation.10 The result is like an IRA for multinationals’ foreign investments: foreign profits accumulate tax-free. U.S. taxes are effectively voluntary on foreign investments.

Not surprisingly, then, few corporations choose to pay taxes. Only about seven percent of all income earned in low-tax countries was returned to the U.S. in 1992.11 At the end of 2002, American companies held more than $639 billion in profits in foreign subsidiaries, roughly three-quarters of which would be subject to U.S. tax if repatriated.12

Second, when multinationals choose to return profits to the U.S., they can offset any foreign taxes against their U.S. tax.13 The foreign tax credit is intended to prevent any double taxation on income simultaneously taxed by two governments. It appropriately attempts to equalize the taxation of foreign and domestic income. However, it means that – where foreign taxes are higher than U.S. taxes – multinationals pay no U.S. taxes at all.

As a result, the effective tax rate on foreign non-financial income is below 5 percent, well below the statutory rate of 35 percent.14 Even when combined with foreign taxes, the total taxes on foreign income are often substantially lower than taxes on U.S. income. By one estimate, a typical investment in a low-tax country faces a total (foreign and U.S.) tax of only 5 percent.15

At times, the U.S. even affirmatively subsidizes foreign investment. In other words, multinationals’ foreign profits not only go untaxed, they reduce the U.S. taxes otherwise due on other income.16 It is a negative tax: the more they earn overseas, the smaller their tax bill.

The existence of untaxed foreign subsidiaries open up massive new opportunities for tax planning. Multinationals can greatly reduce their tax bill by reporting that their U.S. profits were actually earned in a tax haven. One common tool is transfer pricing: When exchanging goods and services among subsidiaries, corporations can set their prices artificially high or low to increase domestic expenses and increase foreign income.17 The I.R.S. struggles to prevent this common abuse.18

In addition, credits and deductions generated by foreign investment can be larger than the resulting U.S. tax.19 For example, multinationals can deduct expenses of their foreign investment – such as interest, administrative overhead, and research -- against their U.S. taxes.20 However, they may never pay U.S. taxes on the resulting profits.21 They can also use foreign tax credits to shield income essentially earned within the U.S. from U.S. taxation through allowances for exports and royalty income.22

<more>
Or for fun, google "repeal the tax subsidy for certain domestic companies which move manufacturing operations and American jobs offshore." It was a minority Democratic attempt in 2006 to have language pulled from the comprehensive budget that provided incentives to Corporate America to offshore. You will get a few thousand hits.

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post #70 of 89 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:14 PM
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If you are in a district that does that get you kids away, because that is not how it works. There is nothing wrong w/ teaching the skills measured by the test because that is exactly what has been missing in years past, but the crap you describe--if true--is not how good school systems do it. So, don't blame NSLB because you are in a bad school district. Try to change it!
I put my kids in the best schools in Charleston county. The system is flawed not all kids and school districts are equal. You have kids that have no problem at being cookie cutter kids and learning in a cookie cutter manner. But, PACT and the other testing that the schools put so much pressure on these kids to excel at are just to get more money for the schools and to look like they are actually teaching your kid something. I have a child who is disabled he has a form of spina bifida and has an IEP and is covered under the 504 program. He is not a cookie cutter kid and they try to force feed him the things that are required to make the grade on these tests and that is not the way he learns. They have had me test him from everything from ADHD to ODD to Bi-polar disorder so they can tuck him off in a padded room somewhere. They wanted him to be in a school for mentally disturbed kids at 5 years old. Because he needs a constant routine in his learning it has to be the same or he can't function and gets confused. If this is what no child left behind is they can stick it. My child was never picked up to be left behind. It took the Americans with disabilities and 2 lawyers and a wacko job of a teacher getting fired for them to see all he needed was structure and a routine with occupational therapy to be able to learn. In his first year of kindergarten his teacher would send him over to the special education class just so she didn't have to take the time with him. She would scare him so bad he would hide under tables and they would have the janitor physically restrain him until I got to school to get him. And this is a child who has had 3 major surgeries before the age of 3 years and 3 months. He was supposed to be paralyzed from the neck down if he survived. After this first spinal cord surg at 7.5 months old he was walking by 13 months. After his last spinal cord surg he walked out of the hospital the next day. And, these people were restraining a 35 pound 5 year old who had his back split open from the c3 to the t 2 vertebrae. This is not appropriate for any non trained person to do to any child let alone one who's neck could be broken by too tight of a squeeze. Any child who is disabled in any way does not fit the no child left behind standards. Due to the simple fact that they need more attention that is not given. ACT and SAT tests are fine but children do not need the pressure put on them at such early ages to preform to standards that are just for numbers and money.

I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way.
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