What part of this remains unclear? (Warning: Gaza Content) - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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What part of this remains unclear? (Warning: Gaza Content)

Sorry, I cannot jump into that 300-page thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
If Hamas were to cease military activity and Israel persisted, do you really think the world would not turn on them in a heartbeat?
This is simply beyond belief. Are you really unable to read the overseas press? Never mind, haven't I (and others here) quoted it enough for you? The world HAS turned on Israel as a result of its decades of war crimes. Only the US with its controlled media remains in the dark. Are you really in the dark too?

Quote:

This is a fight Hamas chose to pick, and the fact they're getting their asses handed to them is completely and totally irrelevant.
Good God, what part of Israel violated the cease-fire on November 4th (U.S. Election Day) remains unclear to you? I already quoted unimpeachable English-language sources to make this plain. Of course they are U.K. not U.S. But everyone in the world except stupid Americans knows this. And no one who has been reading here can pretend not to know. Yet three of you who know better continue. What part remains unclear? Are you saying that the Israelis themselves are lying about what they did that day?

Not to mention the blockade. Another broken promise; No food, no water, no electricity, no medicines. Try that at your house sometime.

--------------------------------------------------------

BBSNews - Broken Ceasefire: Facts about the Israeli War on Palestine

Israeli air strikes kill 227 and leave 700 injured - Middle East, World - The Independent

Top 5 Lies about Israel's assault on Gaza

Jeremy R. Hammond

Jan 3, 2009

Lie #1: Israel is only targeting legitimate military sites and is seeking to protect innocent lives. Israel never targets civilians.

The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated pieces of property in the world. The presence of militants within a civilian population does not, under international law, deprive that population of their protected status, and hence any assault upon that population under the guise of targeting militants is, in fact, a war crime.

Moreover, the people Israel claims are legitimate targets are members of Hamas, which Israel says is a terrorist organization. Hamas has been responsible for firing rockets into Israel. These rockets are extremely inaccurate and thus, even if Hamas intended to hit military targets within Israel, are indiscriminate by nature. When rockets from Gaza kill Israeli civilians, it is a war crime.

Hamas has a military wing. However, it is not entirely a military organization, but a political one. Members of Hamas are the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people. Dozens of these elected leaders have been kidnapped and held in Israeli prisons without charge. Others have been targeted for assassination, such as Nizar Rayan, a top Hamas official. To kill Rayan, Israel targeted a residential apartment building. The strike not only killed Rayan but two of his wives and four of his children, along with six others. There is no justification for such an attack under international law. This was a war crime.

Other of Israel’s bombardment with protected status under international law have included a mosque, a prison, police stations, and a university, in addition to residential buildings.

Moreover, Israel has long held Gaza under siege, allowing only the most minimal amounts of humanitarian supplies to enter. Israel is bombing and killing Palestinian civilians. Countless more have been wounded, and cannot receive medical attention. Hospitals running on generators have little or no fuel. Doctors have no proper equipment or medical supplies to treat the injured. These people, too, are the victims of Israeli policies targeted not at Hamas or legitimate military targets, but directly designed to punish the civilian population.

Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.

Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a "special security zone" within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law.

Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others.

Israel’s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response to the Israeli attacks.

Israel's actions, including its violation of the cease-fire, predictably resulted in an escalation of rocket attacks against its own population.

Lie #3) Hamas is using human shields, a war crime.

There has been no evidence that Hamas has used human shields. The fact is, as previously noted, Gaza is a small piece of property that is densely populated. Israel engages in indiscriminate warfare such as the assassination of Nizar Rayan, in which members of his family were also murdered. It is victims like his dead children that Israel defines as "human shields" in its propaganda. There is no legitimacy for this interpretation under international law. In circumstances such as these, Hamas is not using human shields, Israel is committing war crimes in violation of the Geneva Conventions and other applicable international law.

Lie #4) Arab nations have not condemned Israel’s actions because they understand Israel’s justification for its assault.

The populations of those Arab countries are outraged at Israel’s actions and at their own governments for not condemning Israel’s assault and acting to end the violence. Simply stated, the Arab governments do not represent their respective Arab populations. The populations of the Arab nations have staged mass protests in opposition to not only Israel's actions but also the inaction of their own governments and what they view as either complacency or complicity in Israel's crimes.

Moreover, the refusal of Arab nations to take action to come to the aid of the Palestinians is not because they agree with Israel’s actions, but because they are submissive to the will of the US, which fully supports Israel. Egypt, for instance, which refused to open the border to allow Palestinians wounded in the attacks to get medical treatment in Egyptian hospitals, is heavily dependent upon US aid, and is being widely criticized within the population of the Arab countries for what is viewed as an absolute betrayal of the Gaza Palestinians.

Even Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has been regarded as a traitor to his own people for blaming Hamas for the suffering of the people of Gaza. Palestinians are also well aware of Abbas' past perceived betrayals in conniving with Israel and the US to sideline the democratically elected Hamas government, culminating in a counter-coup by Hamas in which it expelled Fatah (the military wing of Abbas' Palestine Authority) from the Gaza Strip. While his apparent goal was to weaken Hamas and strengthen his own position, the Palestinians and other Arabs in the Middle East are so outraged at Abbas that it is unlikely he will be able to govern effectively.

Lie #5) Israel is not responsible for civilian deaths because it warned the Palestinians of Gaza to flee areas that might be targeted.

Israel claims it sent radio and telephone text messages to residents of Gaza warning them to flee from the coming bombardment. But the people of Gaza have nowhere to flee to. They are trapped within the Gaza Strip. It is by Israeli design that they cannot escape across the border. It is by Israeli design that they have no food, water, or fuel by which to survive. It is by Israeli design that hospitals in Gaza have no electricity and few medical supplies with which to treat the injured and save lives. And Israel has bombed vast areas of Gaza, targeting civilian infrastructure and other sites with protected status under international law. No place is safe within the Gaza Strip.

=============================

-Jeremy R. Hammond is the editor of Foreign Policy Journal (Foreign Policy Journal - U.S. foreign policy news, analysis, opinion), a website dedicated to providing news, critical analysis, and opinion commentary on U.S. foreign policy from outside of the standard framework offered by government officials and the mainstream corporate media, particularly with regard to the "war on terrorism" and events in the Middle East. He has also written for numerous other online publications.
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post #2 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
I want no part in this conflict and resent America's hand in this. That said, it seems to me that there is no solution other than annihilation. Palestinians (as well as several other players in the region) have a long history of working toward the total elimination of Israel.
What part of this map remains unclear to you? What exactly does it appear to you is being eliminated?




Quote:
Arafat had a golden opportunity for peace, and rejected it on that basis.
Are you saying that you dispute the entire exposure of this worn-out canard?

The search feature on this site is driving me crazy with its enforced 30-second wait time. But here is the post which treats that, and remains uncontested afaik.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/off-...at#post3218529
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post #3 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
^ Are you mentally impaired? I'm telling you that every time Israel gives you a gift-wrapped opportunity to take the high road and gain traction in getting the rest of the world to help you out, some Arab nutjob shits the bed and starts firing mortars or rockets at them.

No wonder this keeps going on.
There are so many things wrong with this post, it's hard to know where to begin. First of all, it's been explained numerous times that the rest of the world is already on Tahloube's side, and if you need that documented again I guess I'll do that too.

Secondly, it's also been explained that Israel, yes Israel, that Israel you are apparently sworn to defend to the death, which violated the cease-fire this time and virtually every other time. ONLY AMERICANS DO NOT KNOW THIS. And we must elaborate: only Americans who stupidly trust their MSM.

Do you really not find it odd that Israel's Election Day attacks were carried in the major media of EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY ON EARTH except America? That the New York Times, Washington Post, NPR, CBS, ABC, FOX all ignore Israel's documented violations and put the entire onus on the Palestinians? How do you explain this disconnect?

Finally, are you able to control the behavior of every single person in your own country? Shall we attack you with F-16s the next time someone in your neighborhood breaks the law? This is an analogy, by the way.

This is exhausting. Then again it's what I deserve for jumping into this here when I promised myself I wouldn't.
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post #4 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:34 AM
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Nice word, canard. I was born into a world with an Israel, its existence is thus as natural as that of every other nation that existed at the time of my birth (including Yugoslavia). You insist on taking sides in this, I refuse. My side is my own, and I want no part of it. America should withdraw or curtail support for Israel, and the combatants should end it as efficiently as possible.

Sorry, but that's really all I have to offer. I find the topic a bit of a yawn.

BTW, you're completely wr (oh, finish it yourself).....

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #5 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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The possessive form of its does NOT take an apostrophe.

That is all I have to say about that.
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post #6 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Now, fodder for the "Might Makes Right" crowd. Qassam bottle rocket at top, Israeli missile destruction below.


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post #7 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:37 AM
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Whatever do you mean? I am Israel and I have eliminated the Palestinian apostrophe as efficiently as possible.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #8 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
You insist on taking sides in this, I refuse.

"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral." --Paulo Freire

"No crime a man commits in behalf of his freedom can be as great as the crimes committed by those who deny his freedom." --Leon Uris
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post #9 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:40 AM
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Now, fodder for the "Might Makes Right" crowd. Qassam bottle rocket at top, Israeli missile destruction below.
It isn't about right and wrong, it's about survival (hence my prior repetitive terse posts). Right and wrong have little meaning when survival is at stake.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #10 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Whatever do you mean? I am Israel and I have eliminated the Palestinian apostrophe as efficiently as possible.
Oops, I forgot mods could edit without a trace. Where'd you learn a trick like that anyway, from the Isr.....?
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