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post #71 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 01:11 PM
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The length of this thread is sickening considering the tired and win-less topic.
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post #72 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 01:13 PM
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Since 1969.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #73 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
Israel is a formal ally of the United States. No one has a right to threaten the existence of one of our allies. Hamas has made itself an enemy of the US by advocating just that. Their solution is simple: denounce the policy. Once they do, real negotiations can begin. Until then, we are dealing with unreasonable fanatics who only wish for blood, and if that is the case, then that is what they are going to get.
I don't buy your argument. We have many allies around the world but none will ever get what Israel gets. We have a "soft spot" for Israel, just admit it and stop pretending.
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post #74 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 01:27 PM
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I'm no fan of Israel. I still remember the attack on the USS Liberty. I do however, dislike Hamas and their ilk even more. They bring ruin and destruction on their own citizens with their tactics.

Hamas had the perfect opportunity after the last election to show the world what they were made of, and what they could do to better the lives of the people that elected them. They have failed miserably and now their electorate will suffer for their fanaticism.

As for FTL, I don't think I've ever found him to be tolerable. Many of the folks here are on the other side of the fence from my view point, but the vast majority will take the time (in a civil manner) to ensure that their side is heard. Name calling and profanity do not equal a well though out response.
Let me refresh your very recent history. Hamas NEVER GOT the chance to show the world what they were made off. Do you remember that WE wanted them to hold democratic elections and the Palestinians did just that. OPPS!!! Now what? Well WE and Israel decided not recognize them because they weren't OUR "foot-lickers". So what did Israel do? They withheld all the funds that were due to Palestine. They FORMED a government for Palestine and forced it on them. Remember Mahmoud Abbas? These were the people that the Palestinians had VOTED OUT. So Israel and USA stopped all funds to the new and legitimate government for months and months. They still haven't received the money. Iran came to their assistance and gave them the money they needed immediately to enable them to pay the government employees. And now you talk of how "Hamas had a chance to show the world what they are made off?" What did or do you expect Hamas to do? You want to know what Hamas is made of? Well, do you remember that Hamas KICKED ISRAEL's ASS a year ago? Hamas is in tune with the people of Palestine and have provided every service (medical, welfare, food, shelter, etc) to the people that the government of Mahmoud Abbas was to provide while they were in power but failed to do so due to corruption and lining their own pockets. THIS was the reason why they were voted out. THIS IS INDEED THE REASON WHY ISRAEL WANTS THEM TO BE THE LEADER OF PALESTINE, because they know nothing good for the Palestinian people can come from this.
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post #75 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 01:31 PM
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^^
VERY ACCURATE
We expect the Palestinians to do what's right while being tied and gagged while we expect no accountability from Israel while WE supply them with everything and anything they desire.
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post #76 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 01:39 PM
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I don't buy your argument. We have many allies around the world but none will ever get what Israel gets. We have a "soft spot" for Israel, just admit it and stop pretending.
This "soft spot" exists because AIPAC/Jews/Zionists/etc have been successful in implementing into the syllabus of the American education system the stories of Holocaust and it is taught in pretty much every grade. I remember having to read about it starting in 5th grade and every year after that till I graduated high school. We are brain washed to feel sympathy for them by default. They have used this event to get sympathy ever since it happened and will continue to use it until the day this world comes to an end all the while using the exact same tactics on the Palestinians that the Nazis used on them.
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post #77 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 01:47 PM
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I don't buy your argument. We have many allies around the world but none will ever get what Israel gets. We have a "soft spot" for Israel, just admit it and stop pretending.
Of course we do. We liberated the concentration camps they were being exterminated in. But forget the emotional crap, the place has been one of the most strategic places on the globe for three thousand years. It is a friendly democracy that grants all it's citizens the right to vote, and if we needed to park a million troops there in some future big war, they would do so with pleasure. They are surrounded by either unstable or fascist states that have the potential to be a threat to us. They also do lots of our dirty work. Gotta love those guys.

The people of Palestine have every right in the world to vote in a bunch of nut cases. We have every right in the world to treat them as our enemies.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #78 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 01:56 PM
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Of course we do. We liberated the concentration camps they were being exterminated in. But forget the emotional crap, the place has been one of the most strategic places on the globe for three thousand years. It is a friendly democracy that grants all it's citizens the right to vote, and if we needed to park a million troops there in some future big war, they would do so with pleasure. They are surrounded by either unstable or fascist states that have the potential to be a threat to us. They also do lots of our dirty work. Gotta love those guys.

The people of Palestine have every right in the world to vote in a bunch of nut cases. We have every right in the world to treat them as our enemies.
I would find Turkey to be a better partner in terms of having a foothold in that area in case shit should spill over. I could make that argument for Georgia too
The "soft spot" is what CR hit square on; it's a conditioning into believing that they are our best friends and all the others are out to get us.
Oh, and please, do real democracies have citizen classification based on religion and race? You know and I know that Arabs in Israel proper are second class citizens and are barely tolerated. Those are the lucky ones by the way. So please, go easy on the butter
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post #79 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 02:02 PM
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Let me refresh your very recent history. Hamas NEVER GOT the chance to show the world what they were made off. Do you remember that WE wanted them to hold democratic elections and the Palestinians did just that. OPPS!!! Now what? Well WE and Israel decided not recognize them because they weren't OUR "foot-lickers". So what did Israel do? They withheld all the funds that were due to Palestine. They FORMED a government for Palestine and forced it on them. Remember Mahmoud Abbas? These were the people that the Palestinians had VOTED OUT. So Israel and USA stopped all funds to the new and legitimate government for months and months. They still haven't received the money. Iran came to their assistance and gave them the money they needed immediately to enable them to pay the government employees. And now you talk of how "Hamas had a chance to show the world what they are made off?" What did or do you expect Hamas to do? You want to know what Hamas is made of? Well, do you remember that Hamas KICKED ISRAEL's ASS a year ago? Hamas is in tune with the people of Palestine and have provided every service (medical, welfare, food, shelter, etc) to the people that the government of Mahmoud Abbas was to provide while they were in power but failed to do so due to corruption and lining their own pockets. THIS was the reason why they were voted out. THIS IS INDEED THE REASON WHY ISRAEL WANTS THEM TO BE THE LEADER OF PALESTINE, because they know nothing good for the Palestinian people can come from this.
Almost totally inaccurate. Hamas was elected to power because of the failing and corruption of the existing government in providing basic services, true. That is not the fault of the US or Israel. By electing leadership that supports the complete destruction of Israel, they have screwed themselves. That is an ignorant, barbaric, uncivilized, (and therefore unacceptable) position for a government to support. If they had no one else to elect, that still doesn't make it OK or the fault of the US or Israel. No government can be called "legitimate" that takes a position such as this. They did not "kick Israels ass". As usual, the military had their hands tied in HUMANITARIAN efforts to limit collateral damage. Most of the "ties" are not there now and guess what? As I've said before, the IDF can run through them like shit through a goose. Israel has no desire to see these goons in power. With Abbas, there was a chance for peace, but can you realistically make a deal with anyone who has made your death and destruction their ultimate goal? Come on now, be truthful at least to yourself. Israel has not and does not support genocide like these retards. If you want to be respected, if you want to be recognized as a country, with a government, it's high time they start backing away from this unsupportable position. If you sound and act like a wack job, expect to be treated that way. I'll bet the house (not that this will ever come to pass), that if the Arab/Muslim world stopped this bullshit and put on their best face of statesmanship, stopped all terror attacks on Israel while recognizing the State of Israel, they would be on their way to Palestinian Statehood within months. No amount of whining and crying from Israel could knock them off course. The rest of the world would be quick to tell the Israelis to STFU and live with them. I don't like either party, but I can keep score and the Palestinians fuck up every cease fire, every opportunity to make a change, and all the Israeli detractors such as yourself keep blaming them exclusively. My previously posted synopsis should be re-read until you get it.
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post #80 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-29-2008, 02:05 PM
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^ fukin a

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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