Bush's Consience Rule - Page 9 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #81 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 06:57 PM
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I think the Anti Abortion lobby has plenty of good lawyers. That is not a problem at all.
Yeah but, does the unborn Babies have their own Lawyers?
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post #82 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:08 PM
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Yeah but, does the unborn Babies have their own Lawyers?
goto 80

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post #83 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:15 PM
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goto 80
I am sending money to them as we speak.
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post #84 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:20 PM
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OK, now I am confused as hell about this thread and topic.
There are some things that I recently studied (as I am studying for my boards).
What I am confused about is WHY this legislation?
The reason that I am asking is that all these practices ALREADY exist.

Below are some facts as studied for my boards so far:

1. A doctor is not bound to do anything that he feels is immoral or against his religion.
2. A doctor can refuse to see any patient for any reason as long as it doesn't involve the patient's race, religion, or disease. (now you can't say that "I won't treat this patient because he has AIDS", this would be illegal)
3. A doctor can refuse to continue caring for a patients who is not compliant but this is frowned upon by the AMA.
4. A doctor can refuse to see or care or continue caring for a patient if simply he cannot afford to pay, although highly discouraged and frowned upon by the AMA but the doctor can legally do this. This however is not done often unless the guy is an ass but he does have the right to refuse.
5. A doctor does NOT have to stop at the scene of an accident to provide care nor does he have to stay if the accident occurred while the doctor was there.
6. If the doctor stops and provides care at the scene of an accident then he is protected by the good Samaritan laws provided he does not get compensated and he only provides as much care as he was trained for. (Example: An internist can't perform or attempt to perform surgery at the scene but a surgeon can). He also has to stay with the patient and ride with him to the hospital until the patient is handed off the the doctors at the facility.
7. A doctor can refuse abortion, refuse to pray with the patient (frowned upon by AMA)
8. As far as assisted suicide, there is a very very very fine line between assisted suicide and to control pain in a terminal patient. It is deemed legal in ALL states and deemed moral by the AMA that to relieve pain a doctor MAY give as high a dose necessary in order to alleviate the patient's pain even though the doctor knows that such high doses may compromise the patient's respiratory system that may cause his death. This is the only area in which I see a potential for abuse as some doctors may see it as assisted suicide. But then, doctors who feel this way usually transfer the care of such patients to other doctors or if the patient is in a hospice then the care may be transferred to a doctor who services that facility.

There are several more but I just can't think of any right now.
Also as "the clk man" put it, no doctor will run away from a wounded soldier but several can indeed turn away from performing abortions. You cannot force a doctor to do it anyway by law.
Yup, well said. What I was trying to convey with my "moot point" comment.

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post #85 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:22 PM
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The legislation doesn't really concern doctors, as you say.

The argument is simple. One side believes that our federal government has a mandate to legislate morality (i.e. Iran and Saudi Arabia). The other side argues that objective legislation and subjective morality simply don't mix in a free society, and that legislating morality is beyond the venue of any federal mandate.
Your points are better than Bear's. You have suggested that a doctor could choose not to perform an elective procedure such as an abortion. His posts have suggested that those doctors could be compelled to. I don't think he means it, but he has been seen trolling lately.

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post #86 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:22 PM
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Yup, well said. What I was trying to convey with my "moot point" comment.
That works fine when there are plenty of choices in a larger area but when there is a single pharmacy or a single family practice clinic or a single lab in a area, the situation becomes much less moot.

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post #87 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:25 PM
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Your points are better than Bear's. You haven't suggested that a doctor could choose not to perform an elective procedure such as an abortion. His posts have suggested that those doctors could be compelled to. I don't think he means it, but he has been seen trolling lately.
I have not intended to suggest that they be compelled to. I simply believe that, as a professional who is licensed and certified by the state, the personal beliefs of the medical professional are not to be put in play.

If a doctor does not want to perform abortions, he simply chooses another specialty. That is very simple. No argument at all. Now, when it comes to a pharmacist who won't fill prescriptions for some drugs because of religious beliefs, that is different as he may be the only one in an area or the only one where medical plans are covered.

In all my posts I have said, if a medical professional has a moral objection, quit. And quit can be as simple as changing specialty. A nurse can do the same.

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post #88 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:33 PM
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Well, the others are suggesting that the only doctor in your town can elect to not perform abortions, and I think that is true. Having to travel in order to receive an elective service such as that doesn't seem un-American. I think that is the point they are trying to make.

I think Bush's rule is stupid and moot, btw.

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post #89 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:38 PM
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I have not intended to suggest that they be compelled to. I simply believe that, as a professional who is licensed and certified by the state, the personal beliefs of the medical professional are not to be put in play.

If a doctor does not want to perform abortions, he simply chooses another specialty. That is very simple. No argument at all. Now, when it comes to a pharmacist who won't fill prescriptions for some drugs because of religious beliefs, that is different as he may be the only one in an area or the only one where medical plans are covered.

In all my posts I have said, if a medical professional has a moral objection, quit. And quit can be as simple as changing specialty. A nurse can do the same.
That is the focus of the debate. Doctors essentially do as they please, they always have, as it should be. Who would want a doctor to perform a procedure he/she wasn't comfortable performing? Pharmacists, OTOH, are nothing more than technicians, obligated by license to fill authentic prescriptions written by doctors. They aren't entitled to a say in the matter. As bear suggests, if they don't want to do the job they've been licensed to do, they should do something else.

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post #90 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 07:48 PM
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That is the focus of the debate. Doctors essentially do as they please, they always have, as it should be. Who would want a doctor to perform a procedure he/she wasn't comfortable performing? Pharmacists, OTOH, are nothing more than technicians, obligated by license to fill authentic prescriptions written by doctors. They aren't entitled to a say in the matter. As bear suggests, if they don't want to do the job they've been licensed to do, they should do something else.
That is why I tend to use "medical professional" which covers lab techs, Pharmacists, nurses, etc.

My sis in law [a very strong Pro Choice woman] changed her specialty from Ob/Gyn to ER because she said she was just tired of the moral conundrum that folks had with it. So she left that practice and went to full ER at a Level 1 Trauma Center.

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