Bush's Consience Rule - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 07:33 PM
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I thought about posting a pic of an aborted LIFE. But I won't give you guys the satisfaction of getting rid of me so easily.
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post #22 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 07:38 PM
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I thought about posting a pic of an aborted LIFE. But I won't give you guys the satisfaction of getting rid of me so easily.
The discussion is on moral decisions, not abortion. Since some doctors come from different cultures and some patients come from different cultures those morals vary. What we consider very acceptable, others consider barbaric and what we consider barbaric, some other cultures consider perfectly acceptable. Since the line is not clear and there is NOT a singular moral authority, the government, corporations and public services such has the medical profession have no business introducing arbitrary moral judgments into practice. It is misguided and arrogant.

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post #23 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 07:43 PM
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t is misguided and arrogant.

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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
The discussion is on moral decisions, not abortion. Since some doctors come from different cultures and some patients come from different cultures those morals vary. What we consider very acceptable, others consider barbaric and what we consider barbaric, some other cultures consider perfectly acceptable. Since the line is not clear and there is NOT a singular moral authority, the government, corporations and public services such has the medical profession have no business introducing arbitrary moral judgments into practice. It is misguided and arrogant.
Like yourself???
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post #24 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 07:53 PM
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Like yourself???
excellent retort.

But who is t?

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post #25 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 07:59 PM
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excellent retort.

But who is t?
isn't he a truck driver?
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post #26 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 08:07 PM
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Next time you respond to one of my posts, try reading it first. It is outrageous that licensed pharmacists can now dispense only those controlled substances they deem appropriate based upon subjective moral grounds, yes.

And tell me this Southern Man, what's to stop a hetero white doctor from refusing to treat a gay black patient on "moral grounds"?

"Moral grounds", get it? It's subjective bullshit that means whatever you want it to mean, i.e. meaningless.

BTW, you don't legislate personal freedoms, you legislate against personal freedoms. More legislation = less personal freedoms = bigger government = (in this case) vile socialism.
First off I am not a Southerner in my culture, education, or views. I was born and raised in New Jersey and I embody most of all the stereotypes that go along with that.

Secondly, It is no more outrageous that a pharmacist (private business person) should be able to render the products they think they should sell. We say that businesses can do that all the time. I guess you want Home Depot to provide pap-smears?

Thirdly, maybe you should read the actual rule before you spout off with your Liberal News Hearsay and get your Outrage On. Hear is what is says in part:

Quote:
The ability of patients to access health care services, including abortion and
reproductive health services, is long-established and is not changed in this rule. Instead,
this rule implements federal laws protecting health care workers and institutions from
being compelled to participate in, or from being discriminated against for refusal to
participate in, health services or research activities that may violate their consciences,
including abortion and sterilization, by entities that receive certain funding from the
Department.
And here is the rule in its entirety.

http://www.federalregister.gov/OFRUp...8-30134_PI.pdf

So now go back and sit down and take a deep breath and drink a long tall cup of STFU!



Basically the rule is giving teeth to laws that are already on the books. It is the government stepping in and saying that you can not discriminate against a healthcare professional if they do not want to perform a procedure that goes against their morality.

Isn't it interesting that it is ok for your morality to be forced upon healthcare professionals but when someone steps up the plate and says that healthcare professionals can hold different views than you and not be penalized for it, well then you just spit the friggin' dummy don't ya?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #27 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 08:09 PM
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Just as a question, what if a doctor morally objected to the folks in the military who kill as a part of their duty and refused to treat them. It falls under that same set of "if I find it morally objectionable I should not have to participate" qualifiers. That would be a shame for doctors in burn units, psychiatrists, orthopedists, physical therapists, etc.
I have zero problems with a Dr. who wants to do that. It is his/her right. Nobody and I mean nobody, should be forced by the government to do something they hold as morally repugnant.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #28 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 08:15 PM
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First off I am not a Southerner in my culture, education, or views. I was born and raised in New Jersey and I embody most of all the stereotypes that go along with that.

Secondly, It is no more outrageous that a pharmacist (private business person) should be able to render the products they think they should sell. We say that businesses can do that all the time. I guess you want Home Depot to provide pap-smears?

Thirdly, maybe you should read the actual rule before you spout off with your Liberal News Hearsay and get your Outrage On. Hear is what is says in part:



And here is the rule in its entirety.

Basically the rule is giving teeth to laws that are already on the books. It is the government stepping in and saying that you can not discriminate against a healthcare professional if they do not want to perform a procedure that goes against their morality.

Isn't it interesting that it is ok for your morality to be forced upon healthcare professionals but when someone steps up the plate and says that healthcare professionals can hold different views than you and not be penalized for it, well then you just spit the friggin' dummy don't ya?
At least you fully explained the Jersey part.

Now, back to the original discussion, why should SELECTED MORALITY be included in any Government mandates.

And by the way Skippy, your oath was to protect and defend the Constitution. And at no point does it provide a mandate for selective morals to be part of the laws of the land.

McBear,
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post #29 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 08:17 PM
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I have zero problems with a Dr. who wants to do that. It is his/her right. Nobody and I mean nobody, should be forced by the government to do something they hold as morally repugnant.
Then you don't understand the licensing system for professionals in this country.

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post #30 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-20-2008, 08:23 PM
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At least you fully explained the Jersey part.

Now, back to the original discussion, why should SELECTED MORALITY be included in any Government mandates.

And by the way Skippy, your oath was to protect and defend the Constitution. And at no point does it provide a mandate for selective morals to be part of the laws of the land.
Dude just read the rule.

I'm tired of trying to teach old dogs common sense.

Your morality is no more valid than mine or than any Dr.'s morality. You continually remind us of this. So when the Government steps in and says that someone will not be discriminated against because they chose to follow their morality how can you possibly find fault with that?

Oh I forgot. Bush was the man who came up with it.

You would argue with anyone if they said that Bush told them that the sun sets in the west and rises in the east.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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