Bush's Consience Rule - Page 13 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #121 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 11:56 PM
BenzWorld Elitist
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2005
Vehicle: Mercedes-Benz
Location: United States
Posts: 11,333
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 420 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Bear, I hope that you have found the patience of a saint--which you clearly possess--to be its own reward. For I can see no other at the moment...
Marsden is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 12:42 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsden View Post
Bear, I hope that you have found the patience of a saint--which you clearly possess--to be its own reward. For I can see no other at the moment...
I have a bad habit of doing everything I can to see that folks look at all sides of an issue. Sometimes myopia makes that harder. It is what trains my systems analysts to do work that never requires us to go back and re-sweep. That costs both money and more importantly reputation. So I pound and pound and pound.

Sometimes that bleeds over. But once folks finally realize that I don't really look at things all that partisan they usually start to get the picture. As we move into this next administration that will become more apparent.

I know just how bad it can be to support someone who is such a screwup as Bush. The denial that keeps folks defending him is really defending their decision making process. Time clarifies most things, however.


The best new word of the day:

Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #123 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 01:12 AM
slightly creased
 
420 SE's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2005
Vehicle: 1988 420 SE; 2015 ML 400
Location: Gold Coast, QLD, AUS & Doha, Qatar
Posts: 16,177
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
It was the Chinese. I do have a limit in dealing with stupidity and backwardness.
why pray, do you persist then with dynopussy???

Ross

OzBenz

beware of fundamentalists

420 SE is offline  
post #124 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 05:58 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Cancer_Researcher's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2008
Vehicle: 03 Corvette Z06;08 GMC Acadia;84 230CE MANUAL Euro;12 Acura TL Tech Pkg; 02 Lexus LS430 Ultra Luxury
Location: Somewhere, USA
Posts: 13,825
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by the clk man View Post
Oh it's very different. An unborn LIFE has rights, just as we do. And if a Dr. has a problem with KILLING a LIFE. I say good for him/her.
Well said,
I would perform an abortion IF and ONLY IF the mother's life was at stake and in these circumstances, the fetus would be no different than a tumor in my mind. Under NO circumstance would I perform one as a birth control method even if the pregnancy was only 2 weeks along. But as a doctor, let me tell you, NO GOVERNMENT legislation wcould dictate to me TO DO a procedure that I would have a problem with. Like I said before, most docs would leave the profession IMO. In the end the society will suffer, the same society that some here are trying to protect and its rights. AMA is the 2nd biggest lobby that exists and it is DAMN powerful.
Cancer_Researcher is offline  
post #125 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 06:19 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Cancer_Researcher's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2008
Vehicle: 03 Corvette Z06;08 GMC Acadia;84 230CE MANUAL Euro;12 Acura TL Tech Pkg; 02 Lexus LS430 Ultra Luxury
Location: Somewhere, USA
Posts: 13,825
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Pharmacists are NOT to do what they please but are to follow doctor' s orders. They are to do what a doctor tells them to do. They only know the drugs and their characteristics but they do NOT know ALL the indications of a drug as new indications come out frequently for older drugs, nor do they know CRAP and medicine. Example: Birth control pills (ESTROGEN & PROGESTERONE). They can be used for birth control; at very high doses,as morning after pill in case of rape or unprotected sex; can also be used to control periods or to make them regular, or a part of HRT, Hormone replacement therapy, in women having hot flashes who are undergoing menopause.
So a pharmacist cannot possibly know for which reason this drug is being prescribed. The reason for the prescription, the patient's diagnosis, is not written on the prescription due to patient's privacy. If he chooses not to dispense, then he SHOULD loose his license but before loosing his license he will most likely be fired for not doing his job.
Cancer_Researcher is offline  
post #126 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 07:09 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
TNTRower's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2007
Vehicle: '98 E320 Wagon (non 4matic)
Location: Atlanta, GA & Malabo, Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TNTRower
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
I have not one single time suggested that a medical professional must subjugate their moral beliefs. Not once. I have said that if they don't want to do the requirements of the job, they should find a job that don't have the objectionable requirements. That is not subjugating their moral beliefs. That is standing up for their beliefs.

While medical professionals are not public employees by paycheck, they have many of the very same legal requirements because they take medicare, medicaid and federal insurance. That is what places them on an equivalent level with public employees with regard to discrimination laws.

Is that clear enough? It is only the fifth time I have said this and you have misinterpreted it.
Well Bear then you do not understand your own words. There has never been a version of the hippocratic oath or Dutch or Oregonian Euthanasia laws that say a Dr. is Required to perform a procedure they are morally opposed to.

Quite simply you have no grounds for your assertions other than your characterization of what a private business person should be required to do.

You continually dodge your own circular logic and seem to suspend belief in the fact that these medical professionals are human beings and citizens of this country by saying that their morality should not be protected as yours and mine is.

To protect the beliefs of the individual is truly good.

As Voltaire said:

Quote:
``Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too.''
This is what Bush is doing here. Why you continually characterize this as other than that is beyond me. You of all people should be supporting this as a step closer to the personal freedom side of the spectrum.

To Cancer Researcher... please make sure that you read the classic as well as the modern hippocratic oath. I hope that you can find peace with yourself and your obvious hatred of President Bush and that this hatred does not taint your care of a patient.

Believe Cancer Researcher, there will come a day when you are doing a rotation and a person comes in for treatment and it will take your reliance upon this oath to give them your full measure of skill.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
TNTRower is offline  
post #127 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 07:12 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
TNTRower's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2007
Vehicle: '98 E320 Wagon (non 4matic)
Location: Atlanta, GA & Malabo, Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TNTRower
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzsmbs View Post
you're so wrong. you say it in a below quote yet you're arguing against it. talk about circular.



look at both bold statements. notice anything weird about them?

not at all. see the other bold highlights above.


yes, their job is defined by the hippo oath and the licensing board and not their thoughts or their church. keep trying. you're so close to the truth. don't fight it.
not really. he still seems clueless



ok, i highlighted your conflicting message one more time. review them all in this here post, ponder some and then maybe go ahead have that cup of stfu.
When you take quotes out of context you can absolutely make someone appear to contradict themselves.

I will rest easy knowing that the principle of what I am saying is sound.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
TNTRower is offline  
post #128 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 07:14 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
TNTRower's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2007
Vehicle: '98 E320 Wagon (non 4matic)
Location: Atlanta, GA & Malabo, Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TNTRower
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsden View Post
Bear, I hope that you have found the patience of a saint--which you clearly possess--to be its own reward. For I can see no other at the moment...
Hey Marsden!

You should use this as your new Avatar!


Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
TNTRower is offline  
post #129 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 07:24 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
TNTRower's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2007
Vehicle: '98 E320 Wagon (non 4matic)
Location: Atlanta, GA & Malabo, Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TNTRower
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
I have a bad habit of doing everything I can to see that folks look at all sides of an issue. Sometimes myopia makes that harder. It is what trains my systems analysts to do work that never requires us to go back and re-sweep. That costs both money and more importantly reputation. So I pound and pound and pound.

Sometimes that bleeds over. But once folks finally realize that I don't really look at things all that partisan they usually start to get the picture. As we move into this next administration that will become more apparent.

I know just how bad it can be to support someone who is such a screwup as Bush. The denial that keeps folks defending him is really defending their decision making process. Time clarifies most things, however.


The best new word of the day:

Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly
Dopeler Effect...classic I like that.

McBear this where you start to steer of course. You clearly myopic in your disapproval of Bush and anything that he proposes. You can not be clear eyed about this rule as a result.

This rule does one thing:

- Gives teeth to an already existing set of laws.

You have not had a problem with this until you saw that:

a) Bush made a new Rule w/o Congressional approval.
b) You took the media's interpretation that this was an end run around Roe v. Wade.

I just do not understand why you can not see that all this is, is a protection of citizens rights. Those citizens are the medical professionals of this country.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
TNTRower is offline  
post #130 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 07:36 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Well Bear then you do not understand your own words. There has never been a version of the hippocratic oath or Dutch or Oregonian Euthanasia laws that say a Dr. is Required to perform a procedure they are morally opposed to.

Quite simply you have no grounds for your assertions other than your characterization of what a private business person should be required to do.

You continually dodge your own circular logic and seem to suspend belief in the fact that these medical professionals are human beings and citizens of this country by saying that their morality should not be protected as yours and mine is.

To protect the beliefs of the individual is truly good.

As Voltaire said:



This is what Bush is doing here. Why you continually characterize this as other than that is beyond me. You of all people should be supporting this as a step closer to the personal freedom side of the spectrum.

To Cancer Researcher... please make sure that you read the classic as well as the modern hippocratic oath. I hope that you can find peace with yourself and your obvious hatred of President Bush and that this hatred does not taint your care of a patient.

Believe Cancer Researcher, there will come a day when you are doing a rotation and a person comes in for treatment and it will take your reliance upon this oath to give them your full measure of skill.

So tell me, what if the doctor hates right wing nut jobs, and you get hit by a car as he is walking by. Are you ok with him letting you die?

Signed
Dr. FTL

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    New Forum Rule... vballbach R170 SLK-Class 1 05-20-2008 10:24 AM
    Rule changes for 2008 Teutone Mercedes-Benz Motorsports & Racing 1 03-07-2008 08:40 AM
    The 80/20 rule drcharlesatlas W201 190-Class 1 01-30-2008 08:12 PM
    Every rule has an exception... Marsden Off-Topic 31 01-26-2006 09:28 PM
    Rule Britania !! deathrattle Off-Topic 25 05-23-2005 04:47 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome