Bush's Consience Rule - Page 11 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #101 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 08:32 PM
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McBare gets mixed up in ethics, morals and principled behavior which belies a less-than-solid grounding personally or, at the very least, considerable unresolved confusion in the matter.

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post #102 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 08:50 PM
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Good night, Robert.
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post #103 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 09:22 PM
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No I notice that you keep telling us this and there is no reason for you to say this other than "McBear Says."

If there is a law that says you must do this then yes you should lose your license.

However, I am not misinterpreting anything you say. I am merely using your words to illustrate the illogical nature of your argument.
BRAVO
You just figured it out. There are laws that say you must dispense drugs or lose your license or you must provide services or you can lose your license. It is this Bush Exec Order that takes the "lose your license" element away from those laws.

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post #104 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 09:26 PM
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Your analogy is way off base. Police are public employees; MDs are mostly independent professional practitioners governed by a state licensing board.

The analogy also fails on the basis that investigating a crime is far less crucial than treating a patient.
Again, you are focusing on DOCTORS. Look at the ruling. Medical Professionals. Nurses, Lab techs, Pharmacists, etc.

And if any of those are paid by government funds [like say Medicare, Medicaid, Government insurance, etc], the rules of discrimination are the same as public employees.

And since when is investigating a rape less important than dispensing pills or lab tests or ultrasounds?

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post #105 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 09:31 PM
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Please see the bold statement and explain how you are not doing exactly that by saying that a Medical professional's personal beliefs must be subjugated to the PROSPECTIVE patient?

As for your poiceman example, you are really grasping at straws with that one.

Very typical actually. You can not come up with an example that is related to the actual argument that would support what you are saying so you therefore try to use the tried and true "Helpless Woman" and inflamatory language.

Really Bear, we have come to expect better from you. That is something that FTL relies upon.
So which is it "we have come to expect better" or "very typical, actually". If you are going to try an insult instead of an argument with facts, at least try and keep a consistant train of thought.

The medical professional's personal beliefs have no position in a public job, PERIOD. The beliefs of the patient are not relevant. If the JOB has 25 requirements, if the medical professional does not feel that he/she can abide by all of them due to some moral objection, they simply need to find a different job.

You seem to keep avoiding that concept. Apparently you have no response.

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post #106 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 09:35 PM
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McBare gets mixed up in ethics, morals and principled behavior which belies a less-than-solid grounding personally or, at the very least, considerable unresolved confusion in the matter.
Yet another sniping, totally void of fact, opinion or relevant information to the conversation. Just mindless bullshit.

Seems that when you find you have no argument you always tend to question my morals and ethics, which, if you actually read my posts will see have been unwaveringly consistent since I started posting here [and since I became an adult].

No confusion here, whatsoever. But I do like the ambiguity of your sentence, all the words, but without a string of meaning to link them together.

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post #107 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 09:51 PM
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Again, you are focusing on DOCTORS. Look at the ruling. Medical Professionals. Nurses, Lab techs, Pharmacists, etc.

And if any of those are paid by government funds [like say Medicare, Medicaid, Government insurance, etc], the rules of discrimination are the same as public employees.

And since when is investigating a rape less important than dispensing pills or lab tests or ultrasounds?
It is no less important it is just unrelated. No matter how much jaw wagging you do you can not draw a corollary between the two therefore it is irrelevant just like your licensing argument.

If a pharmacist is breaking the law they will lose their license. Nobody is arguing that. You want to throw red herrings in front of everyone and dodge your own circular logic.

Admit McBear, your own principle prevent you from disagreeing with Bush on this rule.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #108 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 09:53 PM
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So which is it "we have come to expect better" or "very typical, actually". If you are going to try an insult instead of an argument with facts, at least try and keep a consistant train of thought.

The medical professional's personal beliefs have no position in a public job, PERIOD. The beliefs of the patient are not relevant. If the JOB has 25 requirements, if the medical professional does not feel that he/she can abide by all of them due to some moral objection, they simply need to find a different job.

You seem to keep avoiding that concept. Apparently you have no response.
Not avoiding it all. You seem to be substituting your own reality.

You keep saying that the medical professional must subjugate their moral beliefs to the patients'. This is where the disconnect is.

By the way Doctors and other medical professionals are NOT public employees. It is why their practices are called "Private Practices." And don't try the EMT/Firefighter route because it is equally laughable for you to assert that an EMT would be called upon to perform an elective abortion.

You want to hand the same standards of public openess and FOIA and sunshine laws on PRIVATE BUSINESS PEOPLE. Well you can't do that because they are not public servants.

Come on McBear, really.

All of this wriggling is getting to be comical.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu

Last edited by TNTRower; 12-21-2008 at 09:56 PM.
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post #109 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 09:54 PM
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Again, you are focusing on DOCTORS. Look at the ruling. Medical Professionals. Nurses, Lab techs, Pharmacists, etc.

And if any of those are paid by government funds [like say Medicare, Medicaid, Government insurance, etc], the rules of discrimination are the same as public employees.

And since when is investigating a rape less important than dispensing pills or lab tests or ultrasounds?
As you get, late in the evening and stubborn in the mood, you throw in terminology that sounds powerful, but confuses the matter. E.g., discrimination is irrelevant to and beyond this discussion; it refers to behaviors directed at protected or suspect classes as defined in the law and medical patients are not in a suspect class.
Notice toward the bottom of the original thread post the following:

"Shortly after the Supreme Court in 1973 ruled that pregnant women had a right to abortion, Congress adopted laws to make clear that no one was required to perform an abortion. Later laws went further and said "no individual shall be required to perform or assist" in any research or health care procedure that "would be contrary to his religious beliefs or moral convictions." Leavitt said the new right-to-refuse rule was needed to enforce these laws."

Bush administration is not trying to impose any moral standard beyond existing laws which apparently have been on the books for up to 35 years.

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post #110 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-21-2008, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
As you get, late in the evening and stubborn in the mood, you throw in terminology that sounds powerful, but confuses the matter. E.g., discrimination is irrelevant to and beyond this discussion; it refers to behaviors directed at protected or suspect classes as defined in the law and medical patients are not in a suspect class.
Notice toward the bottom of the original thread post the following:

"Shortly after the Supreme Court in 1973 ruled that pregnant women had a right to abortion, Congress adopted laws to make clear that no one was required to perform an abortion. Later laws went further and said "no individual shall be required to perform or assist" in any research or health care procedure that "would be contrary to his religious beliefs or moral convictions." Leavitt said the new right-to-refuse rule was needed to enforce these laws."

Bush administration is not trying to impose any moral standard beyond existing laws which apparently have been on the books for up to 35 years.
No, no, no! You can't refer back to source material and actual facts!

It's like water on the wicked witch.


Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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