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post #51 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Of the ECONOMY. Not just the auto industry.

Funny part is, some mofos from this very board will hail the development.

As in any revolution, they are failing to see their very own corpses laying down the road.

Oh well, so let it be.
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post #52 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by maine_coon View Post
Funny part is, some mofos from this very board will hail the development.

As in any revolution, they are failing to see their very own corpses laying down the road.

Oh well, so let it be.
My fear is that we will all look back upon this time and wonder how we could have been so complacent with disaster staring us right in the face. Oh well, later guys.
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post #53 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 10:22 PM
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Not against the UAW, it works in exactly the opposite way.
How about closing half of its plants ?
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post #54 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 10:23 PM
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Old supplier contracts are torn up. Outstanding debt is converted to new paper.
If these suppliers want to continue doing business, they will have to renegotiate or stick with Ford and cut half of their capacity.
WOW, just screw the suppliers that have stuck with the companies for years?

Oh, and one other thing. Thanks to offshoring, there really are not that many surplus suppliers in the pipe. You take a company like Johnson Control or TRW which have big footprints in the industry and move out their biggest customers, there is not a US supplier to fill the gap if they destabilize.

And if they go, they affect Honda, Toyota, Suburu, Mercedes, everyone.

The cascade of just screwing Tier1 suppliers because they are "old paper" is foolhardy. We have devastated this country's manufacturing base enough.

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post #55 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 10:28 PM
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FWIW, also linked previously, this is one of the more reasonable analyses I've seen comparing total labor costs, especially between the Big 3 and their principal competitors:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/bu...leonhardt.html

That is only 22% for legacy. That would be 22.5% Legacy costs. And GM has always had more as they were always larger. That matches up with the 26% pretty well.

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post #56 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 10:58 PM
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WOW, just screw the suppliers that have stuck with the companies for years?

Oh, and one other thing. Thanks to offshoring, there really are not that many surplus suppliers in the pipe. You take a company like Johnson Control or TRW which have big footprints in the industry and move out their biggest customers, there is not a US supplier to fill the gap if they destabilize.

And if they go, they affect Honda, Toyota, Suburu, Mercedes, everyone.

The cascade of just screwing Tier1 suppliers because they are "old paper" is foolhardy. We have devastated this country's manufacturing base enough.
Some of the supplies will undergo Ch 11 , no doubt about that, part of a gigantic reset of the automotive industry.
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post #57 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 11:03 PM
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Some of the supplies will undergo Ch 11 , no doubt about that, part of a gigantic reset of the automotive industry.
Dang, that's mighty nice of you allowing so many folks to "just" go through bankruptcy because a small group wants to bust the unions.

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post #58 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 11:08 PM
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Dang, that's mighty nice of you allowing so many folks to "just" go through bankruptcy because a small group wants to bust the unions.
Tier 1 suppliers squeeze tier 2 and so on, sorry, there is no other solution out of a 30% drop in revenues.

GM gets direct federal handouts because they are too big to fail. For tier N shops, unfortunately not.

Suppliers are in for some hurt. During the dot bomb mess, phone companies shut down, telecom suppliers go bankrupt and no federal handouts were given.

Quote:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/18/auto...down/index.htm
The automaker's inventory levels won't move much, but at least carmaker will save money. Suppliers could suffer, though.
..
"When you have a plant shutdown, it will ripple across all the parts manufacturers," Hill said.

But even for suppliers, a temporary closing is better than an outright collapse of the business, said Mike Wall, an analyst with CSM Automotive. Carmakers ordinarily give warnings to their suppliers.

Last edited by mlfun; 12-18-2008 at 11:33 PM.
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post #59 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 11:15 PM
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Moreover, permitting GM & Chrysler to reorganize under court protection, and to thus renegotiate contracts, would impose a severe competitive disadvantage upon Ford. Once again, the pattern is consistent: reward the most corrupt and/or irresponsible, and punish those who have behaved most responsibly.

You are confusing bankruptcy with the inevitable federal handout which I am sure Ford will get a share as well.
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post #60 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-19-2008, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
Bush considering 'orderly' auto bankruptcy

President George W. Bush, asked about an auto bailout, said he hadn't decided what he would do but didn't want to leave a mess for Barack Obama


^^^^hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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