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post #11 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 02:28 PM
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^ So you will only think good thoughts. The world needs thought police.

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post #12 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 03:14 PM
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If you ban Religion, then only criminals will be religious....or something
Exactly. Which is why we should legalize all drugs too.

Fair's fair. You get to have your opiate, I get to have mine
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post #13 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 03:56 PM
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Don't know about banning them, but it'd be nice if we could get more people realizing the futility of them.
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post #14 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Don't know about banning them, but it'd be nice if we could get more people realizing the futility of them.

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post #15 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Don't know about banning them, but it'd be nice if we could get more people realizing the futility of them.
Please do not take this as condemnation or anything other than simple disagreement.

I wonder if it is futile for those millions of recovering alcoholics and addicts (I guess alcolholism is an addiction, pardon the redundancy) who have gotten sober as a direct result of religion (regardless of the flavor).

I also wonder if it is futile for the millions of people who have been healed in a hospital that was made possible by a religion or have been made well by a Doctor who is a missionary for a religion (again regardless of flavor).

So I would assert that religion is not futile and that the vast majority of those who practice a specific religion are healthier, more well adjusted, and overall better off than those who do not practice a particular religion.

So I would say that Religion is not futile, nor is it dangerous.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #16 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Please do not take this as condemnation or anything other than simple disagreement.

I wonder if it is futile for those millions of recovering alcoholics and addicts (I guess alcolholism is an addiction, pardon the redundancy) who have gotten sober as a direct result of religion (regardless of the flavor).

I also wonder if it is futile for the millions of people who have been healed in a hospital that was made possible by a religion or have been made well by a Doctor who is a missionary for a religion (again regardless of flavor).

So I would assert that religion is not futile and that the vast majority of those who practice a specific religion are healthier, more well adjusted, and overall better off than those who do not practice a particular religion.

So I would say that Religion is not futile, nor is it dangerous.
Do you think history agrees with you? I mean we can ask the Incas & Aztecs, the Palestinians and many more. Ooops we can't, they are either subdued if not they are labeled as terrorists, my bad, carry on!
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post #17 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 05:15 PM
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Do you think history agrees with you? I mean we can ask the Incas & Aztecs, the Palestinians and many more. Ooops we can't, they are either subdued if not they are labeled as terrorists, my bad, carry on!
If you were to do a comparison of the numbers I think you would find that many more people were helped than harmed by religion. This is by no means an absolution for such travesties as the Crusades or Jihads.

We should also bear in mind the true reasons behind why certain cultures that you listed were wiped out or are still at war.

First of all to say that the Incas & Aztecs were wiped out was because of Imperialism and colonization. Not religious reasons. The reason was gold.

As for the Palestinians, you should look a little bit more closely at that issue especially if you believe that Judaism is the reason that there is such strife between Jews and Palestinians. To say the least, that is a very naive view of world affairs.

The fact remains that Millions have been killed or harmed by religion. However, Billions have been helped.

All things in moderation as they say.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #18 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
If you were to do a comparison of the numbers I think you would find that many more people were helped than harmed by religion. This is by no means an absolution for such travesties as the Crusades or Jihads.

We should also bear in mind the true reasons behind why certain cultures that you listed were wiped out or are still at war.

First of all to say that the Incas & Aztecs were wiped out was because of Imperialism and colonization. Not religious reasons. The reason was gold.

As for the Palestinians, you should look a little bit more closely at that issue especially if you believe that Judaism is the reason that there is such strife between Jews and Palestinians. To say the least, that is a very naive view of world affairs.

The fact remains that Millions have been killed or harmed by religion. However, Billions have been helped.

All things in moderation as they say.
point well taken, along with your previous post, but in my experience, those whom I met who happen to be happiest turned out to be freethinkers - no attachment to any particular religion, but very much in touch with themselves.

Regarding recovering alcoholics or drug abusers citing Jesus or any other religious figure as their inspiration and salvation with tear-streaked cheeks: they tend to make me blush with embarrassment. In the end, they will fail since their support is some external entity that they have concocted up in their substance-induced stupor. They have not confronted their inner demons but have found some convenient contraption in the figure of Jesus, e.g., to make them stand - say, like a cane or a clutch that can be easily misplaced and forgotten. And once forgotten, they're back crawling again.

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馬鹿は死ななきゃ治らない。

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post #19 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Naomilla2.0 View Post
point well taken, along with your previous post, but in my experience, those whom I met who happen to be happiest turned out to be freethinkers - no attachment to any particular religion, but very much in touch with themselves.

Regarding recovering alcoholics or drug abusers citing Jesus or any other religious figure as their inspiration and salvation with tear-streaked cheeks: they tend to make me blush with embarrassment. In the end, they will fail since their support is some external entity that they have concocted up in their substance-induced stupor. They have not confronted their inner demons but have found some convenient contraption in the figure of Jesus, e.g., to make them stand - say, like a cane or a clutch that can be easily misplaced and forgotten. And once forgotten, they're back crawling again.
Well all I can say is that you are correct if they only rely upon the externality of a religious being. The only issue is that all of the major religions of the world preach an internalization of responsibility. You are to do what is right because it is right, not because of what God or your friends think it is.

All of that being said, if they get sober because of religion and fall off the wagon then get back on, and head in a cycle, that in and of itself is progress and also good.

I think that we have successfully shown though, that religion is most definitely not futile just on the most base, practical sense.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #20 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Well all I can say is that you are correct if they only rely upon the externality of a religious being. The only issue is that all of the major religions of the world preach an internalization of responsibility. You are to do what is right because it is right, not because of what God or your friends think it is.

All of that being said, if they get sober because of religion and fall off the wagon then get back on, and head in a cycle, that in and of itself is progress and also good.

I think that we have successfully shown though, that religion is most definitely not futile just on the most base, practical sense.
precisely.

yet there are only a few who manage to truly internalize religion.

I know of a friend's stepbrother who is a Presbyterian minister who use to tell my friend that he'd burn in hell for practicing Buddhism. It so happens that this Presbiterian minister has been having some extramarital affairs all the while he preached that heretics would burn in hell.

All those who turn up with oft-misspelled hateful religious messages scribbled on cardboards at Planned Parenthood, Gay Pride, poltical rallies and UN General Assembly have very, very far to go.

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馬鹿は死ななきゃ治らない。

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