For economy's sake, Pelosi needs to push for impeachment now - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 08:22 PM
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The most valuable thing about the unemployment rate is that it gives us the ability to compare across states and along time periods to detect trends. You read about the "shadow" unemployed and you are left with the thought, "so what now?"

So what now?

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post #52 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 08:34 PM
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The most valuable thing about the unemployment rate is that it gives us the ability to compare across states and along time periods to detect trends. You read about the "shadow" unemployed and you are left with the thought, "so what now?"

So what now?
But if the "official" number is incorrect, it doesn't provide the correct picture for folks to understand the gravity of what the real situation is.

I have two concerns. First, why not report correct numbers. Second, once correct numbers are provided it is easier to start putting our arms around the real problems.

An example. The shadow numbers mask much of the offshoring of manufacturing jobs as the public only sees the direct 26 week impact of the move, not the long term impact. If correct numbers were used it would be less easy for both corporations and politicians to marginalize the moves. Companies could be incented to keep work in country instead of incented to move it offshore.

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post #53 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 08:57 PM
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But if the "official" number is incorrect, it doesn't provide the correct picture for folks to understand the gravity of what the real situation is.

I have two concerns. First, why not report correct numbers. Second, once correct numbers are provided it is easier to start putting our arms around the real problems.

An example. The shadow numbers mask much of the offshoring of manufacturing jobs as the public only sees the direct 26 week impact of the move, not the long term impact. If correct numbers were used it would be less easy for both corporations and politicians to marginalize the moves. Companies could be incented to keep work in country instead of incented to move it offshore.
You may be using the wrong term. The number we get is correct, your problem is that you don't think it is complete.

The creative destruction of capitalism isn't limited to just companies, but includes the people in those companies, who must also recreate, reorganize, and restart in new places. Not easy, not fast, but necessary in our system.

Getting an idea of the "gravity" of the situation is the groundwork to seek government intervention, interference, if you will. If you want to incentivize manufacturing, you might start by lowering corporate tax rates and reducing regulation. Guaranteed to work every time. Just get out of the way.

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post #54 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 10:34 PM
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You may be using the wrong term. The number we get is correct, your problem is that you don't think it is complete.

The creative destruction of capitalism isn't limited to just companies, but includes the people in those companies, who must also recreate, reorganize, and restart in new places. Not easy, not fast, but necessary in our system.

Getting an idea of the "gravity" of the situation is the groundwork to seek government intervention, interference, if you will. If you want to incentivize manufacturing, you might start by lowering corporate tax rates and reducing regulation. Guaranteed to work every time. Just get out of the way.
That would explain how, since 2004 when Bush signed legislation giving $136Billion in Corporate tax cuts much of the offshoring and movement of white and blue collar jobs slowed down.

Oh, wait, I forgot, IT DIDN'T. But it sounds real good "in theory" but it seems that that little NeoCon drumbeat is very hollow. Bush handed Corporate America everything it wanted from 2001 through early 2007 and the jobs just kept on leaving and the manufacturing sector just kept on shrinking.

Bush quietly signs corporate tax-cut bill - Stocks & economy- msnbc.com


Oh, and I am using the correct word. If the Government is NOT counting everyone, the number they are providing is not "correct". It has nothing to do with what I think about it, it is the reality of what they count and what they leave off. If a person is out of work and is considered "unemployed" for 26 weeks, there is no logical or statistical reason to not count him as unemployed on week 27 simply because we are not cutting him a check. He is still unemployed.

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post #55 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 12:06 AM
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I too am all for lending a hand to a company for the sake of preserving an industry and saving jobs. However, I am also in favor of justice.

I made mention in other threads that I am contra most of the pupulace in my opinion we ought to save the automobile manufacturers but let the banks fail. As I said in those threads, I view the autos as what they refer to civilian casualties in the military: collateral damage.

I will admit Detroit was losing its leading position in the auto industry in part to more competitors (koreans and chinese) as well as cheaper labor abroad. However, these companies were still viable. The nail in the coffin was the freezing of the credit markets and the fact no one can get financing including these companies. Yet our government, actually it's the Fed (which is anything but federal) and the treasury, are bailing out whatever financial firm so much as sneezes but we are going to let the only value added manufacturing industry left in this country die. Way to think it through America.

We now have these massive financial institutions which are burdened by toxic debt being propped up by the government with its implicit guarantee. But what is backing the government? Our per annum GDP is ~$1 trillion in this country and we run a budget deficit in the $500 billion range. So the difference between what our government spends and what it brings in in taxes is almost half of all the goods and services produced in this country. We're now talking about a budget deficit of $1 trillion next year with all these bailouts and this is not to mention the $2 trillion the Fed and Treasury sent out the back door. How are we paying for this? We're not, it is simply being printed which is akin to issuing more shares in a secondary offering. Printing more money is simply diluting the purchsing power of the existing dollars.

So here we are, on the verge of hyperinflation and we are issuing more and more debt. Isn't debt at the root cause of all this? The fact this country didn't produce jack squat but a few Hollywood movies is why we find ourselves on the brink of financial armageddon and going back to the bartering system.

I feel we should let the financial institutions fail. The strong will survive and new ones with a moral code of ethics will emerge and fill the void. Purge the system of the credit. Let deflation set in. At least the measure of our labor -- the dollar -- will finally purchase something rather than every one of us having to be more and more productive just to maintain the status quo. Instead we are running the printing presses at the Treasury 24 hours a day and in a couple years will be facing inflation that makes us wish we were back in "glory days" of the 1970s.

Fasten your seatbelts. We're going down.

When devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest, at first with heavenly shows - Othello

Last edited by cozette; 11-27-2008 at 12:08 AM.
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