Global Warming Advocates wonder why people do not believe them? - Page 25 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #241 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 01:38 PM
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You can obfuscate all you want. It does not change the fact that you can not prove Human Causation or Significant Human Contribution to Causation or Exacerbation. All you can point to is 40 years of Science that has resulted in NO PROOF that what we are doing is causing, making worse, or helping the issue of Global Warming.

If you have the science or the studies that say Humans are causing or that Humans are significantly making the problem worse then let's see it.
You might want to do some reading of the IPCC final report before spouting off that "I cannot prove...". If you want to see it, use either the BWOT search engine which has links to ALL the reports or google them. That should not be too hard. It's not even pseudo search.

Your conclusions are based on ZERO. Period. You don't believe in the science and you apparently lack critical thinking skills to glean information from the reports as written. You choose to grasp at straws. That is your right. To assert that is is NO PROOF, on the other hand is not when it is incorrect.

Learn the facts as they have been presented before jumping into a discussion. You have yet to do that simple first step.

I hope that lacks obfuscation and is clear enough for you.

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post #242 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 01:45 PM
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• The only quantitative and internally consistent explanation for the recent global warming includes the intensified greenhouse effect caused by the increase in CO2 and other greenhouse gases.

It does not speak about any of the other gases.

So when you or other members on this board talk about how the environmental movement does not blame CO2 as the main cause or it is not the crux, it is a hollow protestation.
Do you even read what you post?

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post #243 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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You might want to do some reading of the IPCC final report before spouting off that "I cannot prove...". If you want to see it, use either the BWOT search engine which has links to ALL the reports or google them. That should not be too hard. It's not even pseudo search.

Your conclusions are based on ZERO. Period. You don't believe in the science and you apparently lack critical thinking skills to glean information from the reports as written. You choose to grasp at straws. That is your right. To assert that is is NO PROOF, on the other hand is not when it is incorrect.

Learn the facts as they have been presented before jumping into a discussion. You have yet to do that simple first step.

I hope that lacks obfuscation and is clear enough for you.
So you are disputing the 1 PPM figure?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

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post #244 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Do you even read what you post?
Yes. Obviously you do not. Show me where it lays out any other gases other than saying other green house gases?

Besides you are the one who was trying to say that CO2 is not the big player that I keep making it out to be. You were the one I believe, who was saying that it just a small part in the bigger problem. I may be wrong on that.

And we all know that the IPCC report is nothing but unadulterated science.

Just ask Christopher Landsea. He said:

"the part of the IPCC to which my expertise is relevant" that "I personally cannot in good faith continue to contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound"

and let's see there is the House of Lords Committee on Economics in the UK:

"We have some concerns about the objectivity of the IPCC process, with some of its emissions scenarios and summary documentation apparently influenced by political considerations."

It doubted the high emission scenarios and its "played-down" positive aspects of global warming. (Global warming controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

But then there is the guy who believes the IPCC report is full of crap but supports your general view:

Roger A. Pielke Sr. has also stated that "Humans are significantly altering the global climate, but in a variety of diverse ways beyond the radiative effect of carbon dioxide."

All of this points to the fact that we already know, the IPCC report is a bunch of crap that doesn't mean anything. It took a lot of science and edited it to fit its own agenda. This is no secret.

In terms that you would understand it would be the same thing as if Bush commissioned an "Independent Investigation" into the abuse of human rights at Guantanamo Bay and it came back saying that the consensus of the committee is that there were no abuses. What would you say to that?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #245 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 03:32 PM
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Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd gotten enough oxygen at birth?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #246 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd gotten enough oxygen at birth?
Nope never crossed my mind.

you must be very sad...

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #247 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 04:40 PM
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So you are disputing the 1 PPM figure?
You really are simple minded. 1 PPM per year is cumulative. And, the earth's energy balance with the sun and space, called the albedo, is what the change in energy density and distribution of the troposphere is all about. Change the albedo and you change the energy balance.

So, why don't you do us all a favor and breath only air that increases in CO2 content by say, 1 PPM per unit time that is a ratio of the volume of your fucking lungs divided by the volume of the troposphere multiplied by the number of seconds in a year? See how long "just 1 PPM" is tolerable to your system.

How is it that someone who can string together words that are spelled mostly correctly and used in the proper context cannot understand that when a system is balanced at a concentration of several hundred PPM, and contains a massive ability to damp the rate of change in that concentration over short periods of time (decades to centuries) due to infrequent conflagrations, like meteors impacting the surface or the side of a mountain blowing off due to volcanic activity, but sustains a steady 1 PPM per year rate of increase, that there is not something to be concerned about?

You are uniquely obtuse.

Followed, granted at a distance, by cmitch - well, maybe that isn't fair, but your outlook on this is also somewhat distorted.

There are countless examples of human industrial activities polluting areas of the earth to the point where they are no longer able to sustain life, of any kind or those kinds that support our food chain where those forms of life once thrived. And, along with those examples of humans doing bad shit come examples of humans figuring out how to correct the problems they created, and then continue the industrialized process without continuing to pollute. Humans, as they demonstrate over and over, can exist on the earth without ruining it. They just have to try. So the issue what makes humans try?

When the only consideration is money, such as is the case with TnT dude, humans have shown they don't try. At all. Because they don't want to try - that can cost money and when money is the only consideration of value, humans have shown they will dump bad shit in the water we drink, and in the ground we subsequently build schools on, contaminating the dirt our kids play on and the water they drink. And even faced with the consequences guys like TnT dude will continue to argue to avoid losing money. Cigarettes are an example - that industry still exists today for god knows what reason, but they lied and promulgated bullshit "doubt based science" to continue selling cigarettes. The business shit the bed in the United States once the advertising was curtailed and they had to inform people smoking a pack a day was akin to grinding a layer of skin off their dicks every day and not bathing so they would get a scabby, infected.....you get the picture. So that industry assaulted the third world countries, giving them all the cancers and lung diseases they can't be treated for, and can't sue over, all in the name of profits. Immoral.

On the other hand, when money is removed from the decision making tree, humans have done some amazing things. We don't use nasty, ozone eating chlorofluorocarbons anymore (at least in this country). We have managed in some cases to eliminate diseases, nearly entirely, like TB and polio. We have cleaned a great deal of GE's PCB dumps in the NE rivers. Mercury in the fish you catch and eat is becoming less of a concern. The list goes on. Humans are only the crude, careless shitheads you described when we allow them to be only concerned with their money. It would be great if humans had some ability to temper their love of money, but, as a whole, they don't. The same is true of industrialization. If someone doesn't look out ahead at what is coming, industry will run us right into the ground at full speed because being smart about what might happen in the next ten decades is not in the Wall Street mentality. Industry needs to be controlled so that incorporated entities do not have free reign to destroy the actual inhabitants of the earth.

So, cmitch, it isn't that distorted black and white view you think that is in the hearts and minds of those who find global climate change worth trying to control. It is a matter of trying, and this time, before the catastrophic consequences begin. Some say we are too late. Which may be the case. I prefer to think we can have a positive effect if we try. And there is still too much low hanging fruit to distract industry from seeing this is worth working on today.

Jim
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post #248 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 08:43 PM
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So you are disputing the 1 PPM figure?
On post 165 YOU publish that number without providing reference or without providing supporting documentation. So, without seeing the baseline published and peer reviewed documentation, I can't answer your question. At this point it is simply a number thrown in the air by you.

Now, the bigger point. IF, and it is a big IF that number were to be correct you have not addressed the WHY it would be considered important, even IF it were ONLY a 1PPM/PM reduction.

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post #249 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 08:51 PM
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Yes. Obviously you do not. Show me where it lays out any other gases other than saying other green house gases?

Besides you are the one who was trying to say that CO2 is not the big player that I keep making it out to be. You were the one I believe, who was saying that it just a small part in the bigger problem. I may be wrong on that.

And we all know that the IPCC report is nothing but unadulterated science.

Just ask Christopher Landsea. He said:

"the part of the IPCC to which my expertise is relevant" that "I personally cannot in good faith continue to contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound"

and let's see there is the House of Lords Committee on Economics in the UK:

"We have some concerns about the objectivity of the IPCC process, with some of its emissions scenarios and summary documentation apparently influenced by political considerations."

It doubted the high emission scenarios and its "played-down" positive aspects of global warming. (Global warming controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

But then there is the guy who believes the IPCC report is full of crap but supports your general view:

Roger A. Pielke Sr. has also stated that "Humans are significantly altering the global climate, but in a variety of diverse ways beyond the radiative effect of carbon dioxide."

All of this points to the fact that we already know, the IPCC report is a bunch of crap that doesn't mean anything. It took a lot of science and edited it to fit its own agenda. This is no secret.

In terms that you would understand it would be the same thing as if Bush commissioned an "Independent Investigation" into the abuse of human rights at Guantanamo Bay and it came back saying that the consensus of the committee is that there were no abuses. What would you say to that?
I only say that CO2 is not the ONLY player, not that it is not a big player.

And Landsea is a guy that got into a spat with IPCC because they didn't agree with him. How does that make HIM 100% clear and IPCC "nothing but unadulterated science"? You take the quotes of a few people, some political and some paid by Exxon and say that their word is more important that that of the collective bodies of work of thousands. Do you know just how dumb that sounds?

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post #250 of 250 (permalink) Old 11-21-2008, 08:53 PM
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Yes. Obviously you do not. Show me where it lays out any other gases other than saying other green house gases?
In reference to CO2. YOU are the guy that said "It does not speak about any of the other gases", I didn't bring it up. If you can't understand the concept of OTHER, that would be YOUR issue.

Again, don't you even read what you post?

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