US Auto Manufactures Bailout - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 03:59 PM
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I tend to think the government is taking this "Bail Out" thing way out of bounds. Paulson and others should clearly see it is the consumer that helps America's economy. What happened to the simple concept of supply and demand. Supply the working class people with investment capital and they will then drive up demand. I believe if we looked at the real fabric of our economy on a micro level we would be able to see that helping these huge companies wont pull us out of a eco slump. This happened last year. The average American will not inject cash back into these failed business and services because the trust is lost. What needs to happen IMO is the government change their approach on the US Ecom and inject money into the people that spend it on US products.

For instance, Give John a special tax credit for buying American. He buys a new GM for $5,000 below MSRP, but will also receive up to an additional $5,000 in tax breaks when he files pending income and debt.

Give Theresa a 25% tax break for all American dairy meat and other related grocery products she buys come tax time. This will be a great incentive for us to allocate the monies towards products that actually work. If you make a bullshit car you deserve to fail, like if I do bullshit job I deserve to be fired. This allows the American people the ability to say this is how I choose to bail them out. Force these companies to have better business practices by giving the American public the authority of oversight and not some uber rich 12 body panel that would never live the way we live.






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post #22 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 04:08 PM
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We cannot afford to lose the big three all at once. I agree their time here is limited as we slowly attempt to follow the English and Northern European way of socialism. This is the inevitable road of the future it appears. You will see in time the European makers falter and quality become slight (already happening) due to this, they are just a little behind England and the USA.

No one and I mean no one tries to build a faulty product, it is just the compromise of making ends meet that determine the end result as much as anything. The USA car makers have struggled to stay in business, not out of greed, but out of the necessity of trying to earn any kind of profit any which way. You cannot just fold in something as big as the old big three either or throw off the yokes of the advancing labor unions. In a nutshell there is no room for car making in the current world realm in a first world country. Period. As the masses become better educated Joe Blow on the line starts to wonder why Joe Big Executive gets a lion's share of the profit. The outcome is inevitable each time. Japan and the others are on the same scale and will suffer too after one or two more generations. The car building model needs to change in order to survive.

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post #23 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 04:15 PM
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I would buy a car from the big 3 but ONLY at 1/2 OF WHAT A COMPARABLE FOREIGN CAR WOULD COST IN THE SAME CATAGORY! Therefore their employees should take a 75% cut in their pay, retirement, and benefits package. As someone earlier suggested that this is currently $70/hour. It should be ~$20.
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post #24 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 04:16 PM
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I would buy a car from the big 3 but ONLY at 1/2 OF WHAT A COMPARABLE FOREIGN CAR WOULD COST IN THE SAME CATAGORY! Therefore their employees should take a 75% cut in their pay, retirement, and benefits package. As someone earlier suggested that this is currently $70/hour. It should be ~$20.
This prejudice without knowledge is why Walmart thrives and China booms.
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post #25 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 04:17 PM
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We cannot afford to lose the big three all at once. I agree their time here is limited as we slowly attempt to follow the English and Northern European way of socialism. This is the inevitable road of the future it appears. You will see in time the European makers falter and quality become slight (already happening) due to this, they are just a little behind England and the USA.

No one and I mean no one tries to build a faulty product, it is just the compromise of making ends meet that determine the end result as much as anything. The USA car makers have struggled to stay in business, not out of greed, but out of the necessity of trying to earn any kind of profit any which way. You cannot just fold in something as big as the old big three either or throw off the yokes of the advancing labor unions. In a nutshell there is no room for car making in the current world realm in a first world country. Period. As the masses become better educated Joe Blow on the line starts to wonder why Joe Big Executive gets a lion's share of the profit. The outcome is inevitable each time. Japan and the others are on the same scale and will suffer too after one or two more generations. The car building model needs to change in order to survive.
The poor attitude on lets say for instance Dodge not owning up to sludge build up in there Intrepids or faulty engine wiring harnesses in their mini fans is the reason they are in this position. They had ample time in the mid 90's to get their act together but instead they decided to ignore the cries of their buying populist. They had plenty of time to go back and say hey, we know where we went wrong lets fix it, like Mercedes did with their engine sludge problem. Thats just how I feel. They started loosing market share as early as the 90's and now they are trying to play catchup with out the right tomato.






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post #26 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 04:19 PM
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This prejudice without knowledge is why Walmart thrives and China booms.
You are right and that's why in my other post above I have already admitted that I am being childish.
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post #27 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 04:23 PM
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The poor attitude on lets say for instance Dodge not owning up to sludge build up in there Intrepids or faulty engine wiring harnesses in their mini fans is the reason they are in this position. They had ample time in the mid 90's to get their act together but instead they decided to ignore the cries of their buying populist. They had plenty of time to go back and say hey, we know where we went wrong lets fix it, like Mercedes did with their engine sludge problem. Thats just how I feel. They started loosing market share as early as the 90's and now they are trying to play catchup with out the right tomato.
When money is tight there is no ability to rectify problems. When money is tight there is no way to be competitive against those who can spend. All I am saying is the problems involved are not entirely indicative of poor management and greedy Americans. Look at the total picture and get more facts before rushing to rash conclusions based upon broad, general assumptions.
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post #28 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 04:45 PM
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When money is tight there is no ability to rectify problems. When money is tight there is no way to be competitive against those who can spend. All I am saying is the problems involved are not entirely indicative of poor management and greedy Americans. Look at the total picture and get more facts before rushing to rash conclusions based upon broad, general assumptions.
I have to be honest with you Shane this is based on experience. I owned a 2001 Dodge Intrepid, and because of the bad design of the oil sending unit, I had sludge build up even after I was doing oil changes every 2500 miles. I have the engine rebuilt at the tune of $5,000 out of pocket because the warranty didn't cover sludge. After fighting with the warranty company I got my refund of $995.00. After the engine was rebuilt the water pump failed and it threw a rod through the block. After tons of research I found a class action suit building up against Dodge. I didn't join but could have.

I had a 1990 Continental. 1.5 years of ownership and that car ran like a champ, with hefty trips to LA and Back. I sold that car in working order.

I think what they are doing is a little to late. They are offering better rebates, they should have done this in the 90's. They are offering better warranties, they should have done this in the 90's. They knew where the money is coming from. Cadillac redefined their look and grasped a younger market with their new midsize sedans. Ford, oh well. All the guys I talk to that go to auctions for a living say that American cars are only becoming more reliable because of consumer demand. The only thing I see happening is the Big 3 spending more money then they would have spent doing it right the first time, just to gain consumer confidence. How will they accomplish this, when it will take them billions to invest in new products, and technologies, they will also have to come up with better and more creative advertisements. I can only see them coming out with niche based products such as the Ford Edge which they are pushing here in San Diego hard.

They have to start taking the consumer literally and start really designing cars for the future.






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post #29 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 04:47 PM
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I say let them fail. I wouldn't loose a minute of sleep if I never saw a GM, ford, or Chrysler again. As far as the workers are concerned, I am sure Toyota, Nissan, Honda will be more than happy to fill in the gap and take over these plants and build REAL cars and employ the unemployed from the big 3.I know this post is childish.
GM is the 9th largest corporation in the world. Why would the Japanese makers purchase their assets when there are a glut of automobiles on the market right now? Automobiles are an extremely elastic product and the economy isn't picking up anytime soon.

People think the American automotive industry has evaporated, but it's just not true. GM employs 140,000 people, guarantees health care for many more. Then factor in the jobs of parts suppliers and the jobs created by the GM employees and parts suppliers (people need their wal marts, executives need their lawns manicured). If GM goes under we're looking at a massive loss of jobs. Of course, wild ballpark, but 400,000... half million? The effects of that loss of jobs will then reverberate across the economy as a whole. People talk about unemployment of 10%, what about the hit that GDP's going to take? Not to mention that Detroit will basically disappear.

I'm not saying that the government should pour money endlessly into GM. Bunkie Knudson has definitely been proven wrong. What's good for GM is no longer necessarily good for America. Maybe GM should be allowed to fail, I'm just not knowledgeable to say. However, the implications of GM failing are huge.

As for never seeing another GM, Ford or Chrysler again... Chevy Volt son! I've got about $35k stashed away waiting for 2011.

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For instance, Give John a special tax credit for buying American. He buys a new GM for $5,000 below MSRP, but will also receive up to an additional $5,000 in tax breaks when he files pending income and debt.
I was talking with a buddy of mine earlier and this idea actually came up. It's a good idea, unfortunately we both came to the conclusion that WTO would probably throw a fit.

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post #30 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 05:01 PM
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I was talking with a buddy of mine earlier and this idea actually came up. It's a good idea, unfortunately we both came to the conclusion that WTO would probably throw a fit.
Its hard to see how they would threw a fit, when we are being pounded by the world trade in the first place. It's the same as discounts offer to you every Sunday in the paper. Other manufactures have the same rights to offer said incentives. The only thing I see this doing is instead of the US just pumping money into these failed companies, they instead are saying "Well you the American Public and Consumer, driver of this great economy now has a say in where you want us to put your money". This kind of thinking forces Suppliers like GM and Ford and other sectors as well to think about us and not their share holders all the time. For once they may say OH SHIT CONSUMER JOHN HAS OUR BAIL OUT MONEY IN HIS WALLET.






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