US Auto Manufactures Bailout - Page 25 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #241 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-22-2008, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jakarta Expat View Post
Jobs, Gates, Buffett Should Run U.S. Automakers

Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- I sat ...
So seven years ago, the car companies were already on the slide, after years of their Japanese rivals stealing market share with improved production methods and better reliability. Bloomberg.com: Opinion[/url]
Jrkpat, u know, sometimes u should vet your sources.
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post #242 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-22-2008, 01:49 PM
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Everyone knows GM, Ford, and that other... uh... one can't compete until the salaries are on a somewhat level playing field. It isn't sloth, it isn't greed, and it isn't inability in some form or the other, it is the balance of give and take, invest and profit. Stop ragging on America in this manner, it simply isn't warranted.
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post #243 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-22-2008, 04:00 PM
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No question, any company of any substantial size uses private jets, and not just for physical security - a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away, we could not help but overhearing our #1 competitor's marketing plan for next year while a few rows away (they were loud and drunk) on a commercial jet bound for Comdex. These people get paid the equivalent of $1000's of dollars an hour, and any productivity they can get stretched out and with secure communications is justified. We, on the other hand, were told to STFU in public and never wear any identifying badges, etc. outside of the hall.

Nonetheless, those execs blew a good PR opportunity - they could have come in from the airport in flagship hybrid cars.

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post #244 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-22-2008, 04:08 PM
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Love em or hate em, the Big 3, in some incarnation needs to be part of the future of this country's economic resurgence. We need something with mass and momentum that can move large blocks of economic growth quickly and that is one of the best, quickest opportunities.

Please name another sector that can provide as much economic push as this industry to help stabilize and grow an economy. I frankly cannot think of any.
I agree - what are these people going to do otherwise? They can't all work at McDonalds; who will buy the hamburgers? What are the taxes on $$7.00/hr?

It's this simple: if you want to make money, you have to have something (product, skill) someone else wants and you need to have some of the best or least expensive.

The endpoint of all of this is that we take in each others' laundry.

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post #245 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-22-2008, 07:29 PM
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Everyone knows GM, Ford, and that other... uh... one can't compete until the salaries are on a somewhat level playing field. It isn't sloth, it isn't greed, and it isn't inability in some form or the other, it is the balance of give and take, invest and profit. Stop ragging on America in this manner, it simply isn't warranted.
It seems to me as recently as the other day, the autos of American manufacturers were selling cars much cheaper than Japanese and even some Koreans.

Don't forget that workers are only 10-12% of the vehicle costs.

The issue is quality for the price.

Most of this probably is not due to the factory workers, but but the engineers who design the parts, and the boardrooms where they decide to save a penny and mess up a good design.

Would it be best to have a culture of the best in quality, and the customer might pay a little more, or piss poor quality, when the customer has been burned by one model so bad, they walk completely away from the company.

This simple fact has caused the rise of the Japanese, whose products are quality although much of it is probably due to knowing the chances are better by default with them versus the big 3.
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post #246 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-22-2008, 09:16 PM
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It seems to me as recently as the other day, the autos of American manufacturers were selling cars much cheaper than Japanese and even some Koreans.

Don't forget that workers are only 10-12% of the vehicle costs.

The issue is quality for the price.

Most of this probably is not due to the factory workers, but but the engineers who design the parts, and the boardrooms where they decide to save a penny and mess up a good design.

Would it be best to have a culture of the best in quality, and the customer might pay a little more, or piss poor quality, when the customer has been burned by one model so bad, they walk completely away from the company.

This simple fact has caused the rise of the Japanese, whose products are quality although much of it is probably due to knowing the chances are better by default with them versus the big 3.
To the second question, we have become a culture of Walmart. Disposable items where quality really is an abstract. We say we want it, but we want to nickel and dime the dealer and the manufacturer down with every possible rebate and discount and add on and of course free mats and washing for three years.

At lunch today I saw this in the parking lot. The picture sucks as it came from my Treo 755p [where the p stands for pissy camera]. I was only barely able to capture the very blue top [which, while stock appeared to be made of some canvass, not vinyl.]. And I was completely unable to get a shot of the blueish crushed velour interior, appropriately faded for a 24 year old car.

The color was a harsh gold and the blur on the C Pillar is where the letters "85 Olds" had been glued on by someone with apparently the wrong glue.

But while the style leaves much to be desired and the colors are just offensive, the car has 247,000 miles on the original engine/tranny and has provided service for decades. It burns one quart of oil per 3000 miles. The father had just titled it over to his son who is a busboy at Joe's. It will get him and his family from point A to B safely for a few more years til they save up some money.


It is getting new front shocks next week [the last ones were apparently bought during the Clinton years and mama ain't small].

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post #247 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-22-2008, 09:32 PM
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It seems to me as recently as the other day, the autos of American manufacturers were selling cars much cheaper than Japanese and even some Koreans.

Don't forget that workers are only 10-12% of the vehicle costs.

The issue is quality for the price.

Most of this probably is not due to the factory workers, but but the engineers who design the parts, and the boardrooms where they decide to save a penny and mess up a good design.

Would it be best to have a culture of the best in quality, and the customer might pay a little more, or piss poor quality, when the customer has been burned by one model so bad, they walk completely away from the company.

This simple fact has caused the rise of the Japanese, whose products are quality although much of it is probably due to knowing the chances are better by default with them versus the big 3.

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post #248 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 02:09 PM
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The EU "competition" commissioner has the gall to tell America not to look after its own. Helloooo, Airbus anyone.

Sorry, I hope Obama does not fall for this double talk from the same group who's main purpose is institutionalized extortion from American companies.

Quote:
BRUSSELS, Nov 21 (Reuters) - Europe's competition chief warned Germany and France on Friday against starting a race with the United States to subsidise the car industry.

Automakers around the world have warned that the economic fallout from the financial crisis is taking its toll on sales, leading to job cuts.

"I ask all governments to avoid the costly trap of a subsidy race," European Union Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in a speech.
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post #249 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 06:29 AM
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Detroit Auto CEOs' PR Suicide

The three CEOs of the Big Three auto companies did something great with their dumb display of total insensitivity.

General Motor's Rick Wagoner, Ford's Alan Mulally, and Chrysler's Bob Nardelli inadvertently exposed what the real problem was when they flew down to Washington, D.C., to beg for $25 billon dollars from the government ---- in their private corporate jets.

The cost of the CEOs' flights to DC and back to Detroit was estimated at about $20,000 each. A commercial flight would have cost each CEO about $600.

At a time when the country is convulsing with the shock of the financial meltdown, massive job losses, spreading hunger in some urban areas, the captains of the U.S. auto industry did not even blink an eye; they took private planes to Washington.

The CEOs are clueless and out of touch with regular Americans already suffering from the brunt of economic downsizing, or from the fears of impending layoffs. How can these CEOs be trusted with such massive sums of money? If they cannot even pretend to be frugal under the prevailing financial and economic conditions how can these men be trusted to deploy the $25 billion they are seeking to productive use?

Their actions are completely unacceptable and amount to political and public relations suicide. Public opinion will now prevent Congress from approving any significant sums of money for the car industry so long as these CEOs remain at the helm.

So, in retrospect, their acts of folly was a complete blessing. The government can now tie any funding for each of the car companies to the resignations of the three CEOs.

That must be only one of the conditions.

The most important conditions must be for General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler to produce a business plan that shows by when (a) each of their companies will produce significant amounts of fuel efficient cars and in what quantities (b) show by when each company will produce "green" cars, employing electric or solar energy and in what quantities (c) show their plan for work force restructuring, including salaries for remaining employees, and (d) show the level of across the board pay cuts that company executives will immediately take.

Finally, in return for the investment and loan, government should take a partnership role in each company.

Barring these steps; no federal bailout for these companies.

Detroit Auto CEOs' PR Suicide
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post #250 of 261 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 07:00 AM
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Whether this is relevent or not?
British Rail went cap in hand to the Government after the War and asked for funds to modernise its network.
and got what they asked for.
Which they proptly pissed up against the wall mostly by building 5 No enormous freight depots.
reasoning being they were losing freight to the roads.
And if we build these "state of the art" depots magically the freight will return to us
Doh
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